3 ms·

getting splintered metaverses seem way more feasible than splintered physical planets

elzbardico 2y ago
Then you get a Chicxulub and it is all over.
jerf 2y ago
You have to have everyone go into the splintered metaverses to avoid physical expansion. Everyone. Every biological body. Every AI. Every AI written for the specific purpose of having a long enough time horizon to settle new locations physically. Even the AIs written specifically to marshal together the physical resources to build more metaverse computing power. Even the AIs and fiesty biological bodies who one way or another end up with a 100% bias towards physical reality. Even the many, many beings who will quite accurately observe that no matter how short-term appealing this is a long-term loss. Even the beings who specifically want to be the ones in charge of the physical machinery and see an advantage to continuing to expand it. Every. Last. Being. I don't think this degree of uniformity is plausible. I reject this as an explanation for the Fermi paradox for similar reasons, except they're even more relevant across all of the putatively common alien civilizations. I don't even find it plausible that all of human civilization would do this, let alone all of every civilization ever.
- ANewFormation 2y ago
  I couldn't agree more, but with one exception. I tend to heavily indulge the simulation hypothesis, but the nuance here being that it's not necessarily just an arbitrarily simulated complete reality. Our lives do an unbelievably good job of teaching us endless unteachable lessons. What if life as we know it is, for instance, little more than a day's lesson in another reality? Or a day of a gaming? Perhaps a test of character for some sort of role? There's no reason to assume time, and life expectancy as we know it, are universal truths. Even within our own reality the rate of the passage of time is variable. The only problem I have with the simulation hypothesis is it being turtles all the way down. Imagine you pass from this world only to 'awake' in another. How does the exact same simulation argument not just apply yet again? It seems fundamentally unfalsifiable and circular, but I suppose that is standard for any explanation of life.
  - c22 2y ago
    I believe this is actually one of the strongest arguments for the simulation hypothesis. If simulated worlds are possible then there are almost certainly more simulated worlds than non-simulated worlds (of which there can only be one) so therefore the odds of existing in a simulated variety are never less than half and likely much higher or else simulated worlds cannot exist with enough fidelity to remain undetected.
    - dpassens 2y ago
      I think the last part is the problem with this argument. We can already simulate worlds (Minecraft), they're just very different from our own. It has to be possible to actually simulate our universe. Not just theoretically, but also practically: Someone needs to have enough energy, time, engineering ability, other resources, and enough motivation¹ to run the simulation. Also, if you permit me to get spiritual for a moment, I believe that it could be theoretically possible to simulate any fully materialist universe, but I'm not convinced consciousness can arise from doing maths. Since I am conscious, this universe must not be simulated, no matter how many simulated worlds actually exist. [1] I'm assuming that most creatures intelligent enough to understand the concept of simulating a universe will want to try it. But if it takes an entire civilization to do so and that civilization has to choose between, say, spending the energy on simulation running or on food production, it's pretty clear what will happen.
      - ANewFormation 2y ago
        I agree with the uniqueness of consciousness. Obviously no entity poofs into existence imagining itself adding two numbers when I execute that operation, and I don't think this changes whether one carries out 1, 10, or 2^1000 operations. However that doesn't preclude 'my' version of the simulation hypothesis. Imagine you were in a full body VR sim from the moment of birth, that artificial reality would likely simply be reality to you, yet your consciousness would remain. So all that's fundamentally required is some tech to temporarily block all past memories before entering the sim.

Then you get a Chicxulub and it is all over.

jerf 2y ago

You have to have everyone go into the splintered metaverses to avoid physical expansion. Everyone. Every biological body. Every AI. Every AI written for the specific purpose of having a long enough time horizon to settle new locations physically. Even the AIs written specifically to marshal together the physical resources to build more metaverse computing power. Even the AIs and fiesty biological bodies who one way or another end up with a 100% bias towards physical reality. Even the many, many beings who will quite accurately observe that no matter how short-term appealing this is a long-term loss. Even the beings who specifically want to be the ones in charge of the physical machinery and see an advantage to continuing to expand it. Every. Last. Being. I don't think this degree of uniformity is plausible. I reject this as an explanation for the Fermi paradox for similar reasons, except they're even more relevant across all of the putatively common alien civilizations. I don't even find it plausible that all of human civilization would do this, let alone all of every civilization ever.

ANewFormation 2y ago
I couldn't agree more, but with one exception. I tend to heavily indulge the simulation hypothesis, but the nuance here being that it's not necessarily just an arbitrarily simulated complete reality. Our lives do an unbelievably good job of teaching us endless unteachable lessons. What if life as we know it is, for instance, little more than a day's lesson in another reality? Or a day of a gaming? Perhaps a test of character for some sort of role? There's no reason to assume time, and life expectancy as we know it, are universal truths. Even within our own reality the rate of the passage of time is variable. The only problem I have with the simulation hypothesis is it being turtles all the way down. Imagine you pass from this world only to 'awake' in another. How does the exact same simulation argument not just apply yet again? It seems fundamentally unfalsifiable and circular, but I suppose that is standard for any explanation of life.
- c22 2y ago
  I believe this is actually one of the strongest arguments for the simulation hypothesis. If simulated worlds are possible then there are almost certainly more simulated worlds than non-simulated worlds (of which there can only be one) so therefore the odds of existing in a simulated variety are never less than half and likely much higher or else simulated worlds cannot exist with enough fidelity to remain undetected.
  - dpassens 2y ago
    I think the last part is the problem with this argument. We can already simulate worlds (Minecraft), they're just very different from our own. It has to be possible to actually simulate our universe. Not just theoretically, but also practically: Someone needs to have enough energy, time, engineering ability, other resources, and enough motivation¹ to run the simulation. Also, if you permit me to get spiritual for a moment, I believe that it could be theoretically possible to simulate any fully materialist universe, but I'm not convinced consciousness can arise from doing maths. Since I am conscious, this universe must not be simulated, no matter how many simulated worlds actually exist. [1] I'm assuming that most creatures intelligent enough to understand the concept of simulating a universe will want to try it. But if it takes an entire civilization to do so and that civilization has to choose between, say, spending the energy on simulation running or on food production, it's pretty clear what will happen.
    - ANewFormation 2y ago
      I agree with the uniqueness of consciousness. Obviously no entity poofs into existence imagining itself adding two numbers when I execute that operation, and I don't think this changes whether one carries out 1, 10, or 2^1000 operations. However that doesn't preclude 'my' version of the simulation hypothesis. Imagine you were in a full body VR sim from the moment of birth, that artificial reality would likely simply be reality to you, yet your consciousness would remain. So all that's fundamentally required is some tech to temporarily block all past memories before entering the sim.