5 ms·

The UK has just given up on being in any way internationally relevant. If the City of London financial district disappeared, within 10 years we'd all forget tha

The UK has just given up on being in any way internationally relevant. If the City of London financial district disappeared, within 10 years we'd all forget that it's still a country.

Kenji 2y ago
[dead]
observationist 2y ago
How much damage can they withstand before they figure out how to stop hurting themselves? I wouldn't touch UK investment with a ten foot pole.
- throw646577 2y ago
  > How much damage can they withstand before they figure out how to stop hurting themselves? Funnily enough we wonder this about the USA and its drain-circling obsession with giving power -- and now grotesque, performative preemptive obeisance -- to Donald Trump.
- intunderflow 2y ago
  A lot more, the Online Safety Act is just a symptom of the structural problems (Lack of de-facto governance, A hopelessly out of touch political class, Voting systems that intentionally don't represent the voting results, etc). Argentina has had nearly 100 years of decline, Japan is onto its third lost decade. The only other party in the UK that has a chance of being elected (because of the voting system) is lead by someone who thinks sandwiches are not real [1]. It's entirely possible the UK doesn't become a serious country in our lifetimes. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-tory-leader-sandwiches-not-real-kemi-badenoch/ https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-tory-leader-sandwiches-no...
  - robertlagrant 2y ago
    She doesn't think sandwiches aren't real. It was just a point about not liking them. The current actual leader of the UK decided to politicise this, in a real moist bread response: > Prime Minister Keir Starmer — who leads a country grappling with a stagnant economy, straining public services and multiple crises abroad — in turn accused Badenoch of talking down a “Great British institution.”
  - ornornor 2y ago
    > Lunch is for wimps Weird flex but okay?
  - alangibson 2y ago
    Argentina is a great analog for the UK, time shifted by century. Both former first-class economies doomed to a long decline by bad policies that elites refuse to change.
    - TremendousJudge 2y ago
      Hard disagree. Argentina is only similar to the UK insofar as they both deindustrialized starting in the 80s. Besides that, I have no idea why it would be a "great analog".
    - meiraleal 2y ago
      a hundreds year ago Argentine had a population of less than 8million people and the 8º biggest territory of highly fertile land. That's not even 20% of the current population. Argentina was never a developed country.
    - kragen 2y ago
      Argentina was a rich country but never a rich industrialized country. At the time we were rich, we were exporting beef and importing everything that came from a factory. Later attempts at industrialization, after global protectionism and domestic infighting had already plunged us into relative poverty, were based on the flawed paradigm of import-substitution industrialization, whereas the UK was transitioning from mercantilism to Smithian liberalism when they industrialized, both of which put the highest possible priority on exports. London is the world's second biggest financial hub, a fact that accounts for a significant part of the English economy, while Buenos Aires was never a financial hub for anyone but Argentines, and even we bank in London, Omaha, or Montevideo whenever we have the choice. Industrialization was somewhat successful; I am eating off an Argentine plate, on an Argentine table, with Argentine utensils (ironically made of stainless steel rather than, as would be appropriate for Argentina, silver) while Argentine-made buses roar by outside. A century ago, when we were rich, all those would have been imported from Europe or the US, except the table. My neighborhood today is full of machine shops and heavy machinery repair shops to support the industrial park across the street. Even the TV showing football news purports to be Argentine, but actually it's almost certainly assembled in the Tierra del Fuego duty-free zone from a Korean or Chinese kit. There is not much similarity.
  - EpicQuest_246 2y ago
    > “I’m not a sandwich person, I don’t think sandwiches are a real food, it’s what you have for breakfast.” The Tory leader went on to confirm that she “will not touch bread if it’s moist. The headline is clickbait. She didn't say that sandwiches are not real. She is saying that she doesn't believe it is a proper lunch/meal.
    - seabass-labrax 2y ago
      For all the deliberate rage-baiting that Kemi Badenoch and other present-day Tories engage in, the 'controversy' about sandwiches is entirely constructed by journalists. The Politico article that parent linked to even says as much: "The Spectator asked the Tory leader — elected to the head of the U.K. opposition party in November — if she ever took a lunch break." The Spectator are using their press privileges to ask party leaders about their personal lifestyle rather than asking about anything relevant to policy - and although the Spectator might be forgiven for that, it is indefensible for 'serious' newspapers such as the Guardian and the Telegraph to be giving this story front-page status. There are lots of politicians for us to be embarrassed about, but perhaps even more journalists.
      - EpicQuest_246 2y ago
        The person that I replied to tried to pretend that Kemi Badenoch had seriously disputed the existence of a sandwiches. I am not sure we deserve better politicians and journalists. I am of the opinion that the vast majority of journalists are simply stenographers. I wouldn't expect them to do their job. Unfortunately you have do piece together the truth for yourself.
  - BoxOfRain 2y ago
    >A hopelessly out of touch political class Orwell pointed this out in England your England which was written during the Blitz. Many of the problems he described have only got worse in the decades since he wrote about them in my opinion. While the essay is a bit dated now (it predates the post-war era of globalisation for example which created new axes in UK politics) I still think it's essential background reading for people who want to know what's wrong with the UK, and it's an excellent example of political writing in general.
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    I don't think sandwiches are "real food" too, what's the problem with that specific case?
    - pixl97 2y ago
      Not sure exactly, but the first think that comes to mind is "let them eat cake" vibes.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- chairmansteve 2y ago
  USA may not be such a good bet these days either.
luma 2y ago
This feels relevant to your comment: https://archive.is/9V2Bf https://archive.is/9V2Bf Orgs are already fleeing LSEG for deeper capital markets in the US.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  The LSE itself isn't really _that_ important; London remains huge for financial services in general (though this _may_ be somewhat in decline for various reasons; it lost a certain amount of importance as the de facto gateway to Europe after Brexit, say).
FredPret 2y ago
As an aside, the UK is a great tourist destination, especially if you leave London right after landing. Beautiful landscape, the best breakfast around, really nice people, tons of sights to see.
- tsukikage 2y ago
  ...plenty of weather, scenic potholes, medieval plumbing and occasional trains.
- monero-xmr 2y ago
  Yes the end result of rich western nations that get strangled by government is to be a museum
  - FredPret 2y ago
    I agree it’s tragic but out of all the ways a culture can strangle itself, museumification is the least horrible
    - stavros 2y ago
      There's always the option of, you know, not strangling itself.
      - pas 2y ago
        don't kinkshame the lovely people of the Isles, they apparently have a penchant for many things, like separate cold and hot water faucet and a bit of autoerotic asphyxiation.
        rsynnott 2y ago
        > like separate cold and hot water faucet This was, oddly, for regulatory reasons; the concern was that a blocked mixer unit could cause hot water (considered potentially unsafe) to be forced into the mains supply (presumed safe). This hasn't been a concern with mixer designs for a long time, but it took til the 90s to get the rule changed.

The UK has just given up on being in any way internationally relevant. If the City of London financial district disappeared, within 10 years we'd all forget that it's still a country.

Kenji 2y ago

[dead]

observationist 2y ago

How much damage can they withstand before they figure out how to stop hurting themselves? I wouldn't touch UK investment with a ten foot pole.

throw646577 2y ago
> How much damage can they withstand before they figure out how to stop hurting themselves? Funnily enough we wonder this about the USA and its drain-circling obsession with giving power -- and now grotesque, performative preemptive obeisance -- to Donald Trump.
intunderflow 2y ago
A lot more, the Online Safety Act is just a symptom of the structural problems (Lack of de-facto governance, A hopelessly out of touch political class, Voting systems that intentionally don't represent the voting results, etc). Argentina has had nearly 100 years of decline, Japan is onto its third lost decade. The only other party in the UK that has a chance of being elected (because of the voting system) is lead by someone who thinks sandwiches are not real [1]. It's entirely possible the UK doesn't become a serious country in our lifetimes. [1] https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-tory-leader-sandwiches-not-real-kemi-badenoch/ https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-tory-leader-sandwiches-no...
- robertlagrant 2y ago
  She doesn't think sandwiches aren't real. It was just a point about not liking them. The current actual leader of the UK decided to politicise this, in a real moist bread response: > Prime Minister Keir Starmer — who leads a country grappling with a stagnant economy, straining public services and multiple crises abroad — in turn accused Badenoch of talking down a “Great British institution.”
- ornornor 2y ago
  > Lunch is for wimps Weird flex but okay?
- alangibson 2y ago
  Argentina is a great analog for the UK, time shifted by century. Both former first-class economies doomed to a long decline by bad policies that elites refuse to change.
  - TremendousJudge 2y ago
    Hard disagree. Argentina is only similar to the UK insofar as they both deindustrialized starting in the 80s. Besides that, I have no idea why it would be a "great analog".
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    a hundreds year ago Argentine had a population of less than 8million people and the 8º biggest territory of highly fertile land. That's not even 20% of the current population. Argentina was never a developed country.
  - kragen 2y ago
    Argentina was a rich country but never a rich industrialized country. At the time we were rich, we were exporting beef and importing everything that came from a factory. Later attempts at industrialization, after global protectionism and domestic infighting had already plunged us into relative poverty, were based on the flawed paradigm of import-substitution industrialization, whereas the UK was transitioning from mercantilism to Smithian liberalism when they industrialized, both of which put the highest possible priority on exports. London is the world's second biggest financial hub, a fact that accounts for a significant part of the English economy, while Buenos Aires was never a financial hub for anyone but Argentines, and even we bank in London, Omaha, or Montevideo whenever we have the choice. Industrialization was somewhat successful; I am eating off an Argentine plate, on an Argentine table, with Argentine utensils (ironically made of stainless steel rather than, as would be appropriate for Argentina, silver) while Argentine-made buses roar by outside. A century ago, when we were rich, all those would have been imported from Europe or the US, except the table. My neighborhood today is full of machine shops and heavy machinery repair shops to support the industrial park across the street. Even the TV showing football news purports to be Argentine, but actually it's almost certainly assembled in the Tierra del Fuego duty-free zone from a Korean or Chinese kit. There is not much similarity.
- EpicQuest_246 2y ago
  > “I’m not a sandwich person, I don’t think sandwiches are a real food, it’s what you have for breakfast.” The Tory leader went on to confirm that she “will not touch bread if it’s moist. The headline is clickbait. She didn't say that sandwiches are not real. She is saying that she doesn't believe it is a proper lunch/meal.
  - seabass-labrax 2y ago
    For all the deliberate rage-baiting that Kemi Badenoch and other present-day Tories engage in, the 'controversy' about sandwiches is entirely constructed by journalists. The Politico article that parent linked to even says as much: "The Spectator asked the Tory leader — elected to the head of the U.K. opposition party in November — if she ever took a lunch break." The Spectator are using their press privileges to ask party leaders about their personal lifestyle rather than asking about anything relevant to policy - and although the Spectator might be forgiven for that, it is indefensible for 'serious' newspapers such as the Guardian and the Telegraph to be giving this story front-page status. There are lots of politicians for us to be embarrassed about, but perhaps even more journalists.
    - EpicQuest_246 2y ago
      The person that I replied to tried to pretend that Kemi Badenoch had seriously disputed the existence of a sandwiches. I am not sure we deserve better politicians and journalists. I am of the opinion that the vast majority of journalists are simply stenographers. I wouldn't expect them to do their job. Unfortunately you have do piece together the truth for yourself.
- BoxOfRain 2y ago
  >A hopelessly out of touch political class Orwell pointed this out in England your England which was written during the Blitz. Many of the problems he described have only got worse in the decades since he wrote about them in my opinion. While the essay is a bit dated now (it predates the post-war era of globalisation for example which created new axes in UK politics) I still think it's essential background reading for people who want to know what's wrong with the UK, and it's an excellent example of political writing in general.
- meiraleal 2y ago
  I don't think sandwiches are "real food" too, what's the problem with that specific case?
  - pixl97 2y ago
    Not sure exactly, but the first think that comes to mind is "let them eat cake" vibes.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
chairmansteve 2y ago
USA may not be such a good bet these days either.

luma 2y ago

This feels relevant to your comment: https://archive.is/9V2Bf https://archive.is/9V2Bf Orgs are already fleeing LSEG for deeper capital markets in the US.

rsynnott 2y ago
The LSE itself isn't really _that_ important; London remains huge for financial services in general (though this _may_ be somewhat in decline for various reasons; it lost a certain amount of importance as the de facto gateway to Europe after Brexit, say).

FredPret 2y ago

As an aside, the UK is a great tourist destination, especially if you leave London right after landing. Beautiful landscape, the best breakfast around, really nice people, tons of sights to see.

tsukikage 2y ago
...plenty of weather, scenic potholes, medieval plumbing and occasional trains.
monero-xmr 2y ago
Yes the end result of rich western nations that get strangled by government is to be a museum
- FredPret 2y ago
  I agree it’s tragic but out of all the ways a culture can strangle itself, museumification is the least horrible
  - stavros 2y ago
    There's always the option of, you know, not strangling itself.
    - pas 2y ago
      don't kinkshame the lovely people of the Isles, they apparently have a penchant for many things, like separate cold and hot water faucet and a bit of autoerotic asphyxiation.
      - rsynnott 2y ago
        > like separate cold and hot water faucet This was, oddly, for regulatory reasons; the concern was that a blocked mixer unit could cause hot water (considered potentially unsafe) to be forced into the mains supply (presumed safe). This hasn't been a concern with mixer designs for a long time, but it took til the 90s to get the rule changed.