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American news outlets just love to use the click-baity word "collapse" when it comes to parliamentary systems not being able to form a government. Technically

American news outlets just love to use the click-baity word "collapse" when it comes to parliamentary systems not being able to form a government. Technically I guess it's true, but this is not exactly a rare occurrence in parliamentary systems, and since we don't really have an equivalent event in American federal government (the lengthy process to elect a Speaker of the House last year was probably the closest we've come), I think most American readers interpret "collapse" as something much more dire than it actually is.

gruez 2y ago
>and since we don't really have an equivalent event in American federal government (the lengthy process to elect a Speaker of the House last year was probably the closest we've come), No. The closest is when the federal government shuts down because of the debt limit, which has happened multiple times. It's also arguably more impactful compared to a government "collapsing" (ie. new elections called).
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  Disagree. In a parliamentary system, the executive roles (e.g. prime minister and his cabinet) all come from parliament - there is not the same separation of executive branch and legislative branch like there is in the American system. So when no party or coalition in parliament has a majority, there is essentially no "executive branch" and new elections must be called. In the US, again that can't happen because the executive branch is fully separate, and even within Congress it rarely happens because we only have 2 major parties. So the situation where the House couldn't elect a Speaker due to the problems cobbling up a majority vote, which then froze any other work the House could do, is most analogous in my opinion. Debt limit standoffs are a completely separate process, and the impacts they have are nothing like what happens in a parliamentary country when a government can't be formed.
  - MagnumOpus 2y ago
    Nitpick: in a parliamentary democracy, the executive functions just fine in times of a lame-duck government (Just like in a presidential democracy like in the US right now.) What does not work is the legislative function - which in a parliamentary democracy usually works in tandem with the executive which has the parliamentary majority. But countries can work for years without legislators pushing through sweeping reforms…
SllX 2y ago
> American news outlets just love to use the click-baity word "collapse" when it comes to parliamentary systems not being able to form a government. Not disagreeing with the American media’s love for click-baity nonsense, but I’ve been under the impression my whole life that this was a Britishism we imported. Not that British media is known for shying away from shock-value, but for what it’s worth, the BBC and The Guardian both refer to this as a government collapse, and have done so in the past when the French and Dutch governments collapsed. Also a bit less confident this is a British import now than I was since I can’t track down a useful etymology. Would appreciate if anybody could post one here if they have it.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  FWIW I thought the Washinton Post's headline on this topic was much better and less click-baity, "Chancellor Olaf Scholz loses confidence vote, triggering early election".

gruez 2y ago

>and since we don't really have an equivalent event in American federal government (the lengthy process to elect a Speaker of the House last year was probably the closest we've come), No. The closest is when the federal government shuts down because of the debt limit, which has happened multiple times. It's also arguably more impactful compared to a government "collapsing" (ie. new elections called).

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
Disagree. In a parliamentary system, the executive roles (e.g. prime minister and his cabinet) all come from parliament - there is not the same separation of executive branch and legislative branch like there is in the American system. So when no party or coalition in parliament has a majority, there is essentially no "executive branch" and new elections must be called. In the US, again that can't happen because the executive branch is fully separate, and even within Congress it rarely happens because we only have 2 major parties. So the situation where the House couldn't elect a Speaker due to the problems cobbling up a majority vote, which then froze any other work the House could do, is most analogous in my opinion. Debt limit standoffs are a completely separate process, and the impacts they have are nothing like what happens in a parliamentary country when a government can't be formed.
- MagnumOpus 2y ago
  Nitpick: in a parliamentary democracy, the executive functions just fine in times of a lame-duck government (Just like in a presidential democracy like in the US right now.) What does not work is the legislative function - which in a parliamentary democracy usually works in tandem with the executive which has the parliamentary majority. But countries can work for years without legislators pushing through sweeping reforms…

SllX 2y ago

> American news outlets just love to use the click-baity word "collapse" when it comes to parliamentary systems not being able to form a government. Not disagreeing with the American media’s love for click-baity nonsense, but I’ve been under the impression my whole life that this was a Britishism we imported. Not that British media is known for shying away from shock-value, but for what it’s worth, the BBC and The Guardian both refer to this as a government collapse, and have done so in the past when the French and Dutch governments collapsed. Also a bit less confident this is a British import now than I was since I can’t track down a useful etymology. Would appreciate if anybody could post one here if they have it.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
FWIW I thought the Washinton Post's headline on this topic was much better and less click-baity, "Chancellor Olaf Scholz loses confidence vote, triggering early election".