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This is just an opinion piece with little justification that does a pretty good job of undermining the clickbait-y title with the very first sentence: > Opinio

by jmyeet 2y ago

This is just an opinion piece with little justification that does a pretty good job of undermining the clickbait-y title with the very first sentence: > Opinion Perplexity offers several advantages over Google as a search engine, making it a compelling alternative for many. Second, this whole "Google sucks" narrative is (IMHO) completely manufactured by those pushing another product or those with clickbait-y titles to opinion pieces. Or it's just self-delusion by people who want it to be true because they're contrarian or don't like Google for whatever reason (justified or not). We've been hearing this for years about DDG at this point. Chatbots are nowhere near ready to replace the utility of Google. It's not even close. Even things like auto complete as you type are incredibly useful. Googling a place will usually give you a map link for the place in addition to other links. And chatbots can be confidently wrong about things in a way Google really isn't. Google can lead you to links with wrong information but that's not usually the same thing. There's something to be said for the "authority" concept in Google search ranking. The only reliable takeaway from this is that we will continue to predict the death of Google, just as we have been for at least 15 years [1]. [1]: https://technologizer.com/2009/05/19/a-brief-history-of-google-killers/index.html https://technologizer.com/2009/05/19/a-brief-history-of-goog...

D13Fd 2y ago
> this whole "Google sucks" narrative is (IMHO) completely manufactured by those pushing another product Strongly disagree. I use Kagi and immediately notice how crappy Google is any time I end up there (e.g. on somebody else’s device).
- jmyeet 2y ago
  Serious question: for what searches? In any of these "Google sucks" claims I've yet to see any definitive search results of Google compared to anything else where the alternative was clearly better. In fact, I rarely see any examples at all. It's all just feelings and vibes. I've literally been hearing this for years at this point. DDG was the popular kid on HN for awhile and, even then, if you dug into the claims it would usually come down to "I don't use !g that often".
  - D13Fd 2y ago
    I don't have any concrete examples. But I will say that I have literally never used !g with Kagi or felt any inclination to. I agree about prior engines. I tried DDG for a short period but it felt like junk, and same for Bing. With Bing in particular I'd search and search and not find something I knew was out there.
hattmall 2y ago
For me, just comparing Google to Google of 10 years ago it's very clear that Google is terrible now. I haven't found a viable alternative though. Kagi was Ok, but nothing seems as good as Google was 10 years ago. I used Kagi enough to pay for it and I don't like that concept. I thinking having ads in search is completely reasonable, just label them as such and don't cater to ads at the cost of my search terms. I think thought if I'm searching for something and the ad is relevant it's fine to show it and can even help me find out about new products. But Google is engineered to give you bad results so you do more searches and are more likely to click on an ad.
- jmyeet 2y ago
  > But Google is engineered to give you bad results so you do more searches and are more likely to click on an ad. Citation needed. I do not believe Google would be a sustainable search business if people were routinely given bad results to keep searching. What concrete examples can you give of what you consider "bad" search results? I'm genuinely curious.
CamperBob2 2y ago
Second, this whole "Google sucks" narrative is (IMHO) completely manufactured by those pushing another product or those with clickbait-y titles to opinion pieces. Not that chatbots are the answer, but: if you think Google is still worth a damn, submit your next query to both Bing and Google and see what gives you more actionable results. Never mind Kagi or DDG or whatever people are pushing lately, just try plain old dumb Bing. It will beat Google like a rented mule. Search is no longer job #1 at Google these days, and it shows. They lived long enough to become one of the crappy search engines they replaced.
- jmyeet 2y ago
  I've seen these claims for years at this point but I never see concrete examples. It's all just vibes. Part of the problem I think is that people have decided that if they see any ad, it's a bad search. That's my working theory anyway. As an example, I just searched "How to fix a leaky faucet" across multiple search engines and on Google (both logged in and fresh and without ad blockers) and on Google I pretty much consistently get: - Home Depot link - People also ask... - List of videos on the subject - Lowe's link - This Old House link - Discussion and forums Now, I half expected there to be ads for plumbers in my area on this page. That, to me, would be a completely legitimate ad in addition to organic search results. After years, I've yet to see any of these claims that go anything beyond "vibes".
  - jeffbee 2y ago
    And the non-Google engines can't even begin to solve use cases that I find central to my search experience, because the Google results are based on user signals that the other engines are incapable of processing, even when I am logged in. For example "When is the bus coming" does what I want on Google, does nothing of value elsewhere.
  - CamperBob2 2y ago
    I've seen these claims for years at this point but I never see concrete examples. It's all just vibes. Admittedly you're searching for very different things than what I search for. Lately, whenever I need things like electronic app notes and data sheets, Bing has been returning useful results on the front page that don't show up in Google at all. There is no shortage of unattributed, misleading and/or wrong snippets mixed in with the Google results, though.

by jmyeet 2y ago

D13Fd 2y ago

> this whole "Google sucks" narrative is (IMHO) completely manufactured by those pushing another product Strongly disagree. I use Kagi and immediately notice how crappy Google is any time I end up there (e.g. on somebody else’s device).

jmyeet 2y ago
Serious question: for what searches? In any of these "Google sucks" claims I've yet to see any definitive search results of Google compared to anything else where the alternative was clearly better. In fact, I rarely see any examples at all. It's all just feelings and vibes. I've literally been hearing this for years at this point. DDG was the popular kid on HN for awhile and, even then, if you dug into the claims it would usually come down to "I don't use !g that often".
- D13Fd 2y ago
  I don't have any concrete examples. But I will say that I have literally never used !g with Kagi or felt any inclination to. I agree about prior engines. I tried DDG for a short period but it felt like junk, and same for Bing. With Bing in particular I'd search and search and not find something I knew was out there.

hattmall 2y ago

For me, just comparing Google to Google of 10 years ago it's very clear that Google is terrible now. I haven't found a viable alternative though. Kagi was Ok, but nothing seems as good as Google was 10 years ago. I used Kagi enough to pay for it and I don't like that concept. I thinking having ads in search is completely reasonable, just label them as such and don't cater to ads at the cost of my search terms. I think thought if I'm searching for something and the ad is relevant it's fine to show it and can even help me find out about new products. But Google is engineered to give you bad results so you do more searches and are more likely to click on an ad.

jmyeet 2y ago
> But Google is engineered to give you bad results so you do more searches and are more likely to click on an ad. Citation needed. I do not believe Google would be a sustainable search business if people were routinely given bad results to keep searching. What concrete examples can you give of what you consider "bad" search results? I'm genuinely curious.

CamperBob2 2y ago

Second, this whole "Google sucks" narrative is (IMHO) completely manufactured by those pushing another product or those with clickbait-y titles to opinion pieces. Not that chatbots are the answer, but: if you think Google is still worth a damn, submit your next query to both Bing and Google and see what gives you more actionable results. Never mind Kagi or DDG or whatever people are pushing lately, just try plain old dumb Bing. It will beat Google like a rented mule. Search is no longer job #1 at Google these days, and it shows. They lived long enough to become one of the crappy search engines they replaced.

jmyeet 2y ago
I've seen these claims for years at this point but I never see concrete examples. It's all just vibes. Part of the problem I think is that people have decided that if they see any ad, it's a bad search. That's my working theory anyway. As an example, I just searched "How to fix a leaky faucet" across multiple search engines and on Google (both logged in and fresh and without ad blockers) and on Google I pretty much consistently get: - Home Depot link - People also ask... - List of videos on the subject - Lowe's link - This Old House link - Discussion and forums Now, I half expected there to be ads for plumbers in my area on this page. That, to me, would be a completely legitimate ad in addition to organic search results. After years, I've yet to see any of these claims that go anything beyond "vibes".
- jeffbee 2y ago
  And the non-Google engines can't even begin to solve use cases that I find central to my search experience, because the Google results are based on user signals that the other engines are incapable of processing, even when I am logged in. For example "When is the bus coming" does what I want on Google, does nothing of value elsewhere.
- CamperBob2 2y ago
  I've seen these claims for years at this point but I never see concrete examples. It's all just vibes. Admittedly you're searching for very different things than what I search for. Lately, whenever I need things like electronic app notes and data sheets, Bing has been returning useful results on the front page that don't show up in Google at all. There is no shortage of unattributed, misleading and/or wrong snippets mixed in with the Google results, though.