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Appeal for British oak to recreate Sutton Hoo ship

37 points by zeristor 2y ago

henearkr 2y ago
They will better reconnect with their medieval history by having and keeping beautiful majestic living oak trees, as many as possible and as widespread in the country as possible. Their boat project is in no hurry. Why can't it wait the natural pace of the "donations", slow as it may be?
- Smaug123 2y ago
  The volunteers probably do want to live to see it done. The inhabitants of Woodbridge do not skew young, and the few pictures I was immediately able to find of the project suggest that the volunteers in fact skew old.
  - henearkr 2y ago
    They could take it as a unique chance to experience/reenact a multi-generational project as it was common in the Middle Ages with the building of cathedrals or castles. Different times have different constraints, and so what constitues a multi-generational project varies.
- benrutter 2y ago
  I agree- I'm not sure how many readers realise how old old oak trees are. Britain is home to ancient oak trees that are seceral hundreds of years old, and connected in amazing ways to the ecosystem. Obviously nobody is suggested using ancient oak trees, but it gives some idea of the life span of an oak tree. A sutton hoo recreation would be amazing, but I'm not sure it justifies use of veteran stock over newer oak trees.
  - zitsarethecure 2y ago
    A neighbor of mine here in the US cut down a nearly 300 year old white oak that was in his yard to make room for a kitchen addition. I saved a small piece of a branch that I turned into a bowl, but the rest of it was cut up for firewood.
- graemep 2y ago
  > To replace the trees that we are using, we planted 400 oak saplings https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruction-of-the-sutton-hoo-ship-2/ https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruc...
violettegabarae 2y ago
[dead]
YouWhy 2y ago
Experimental archeology is amazing! However the clash of this article as it is, is not very profound. Going over the article, it mentions three constraints pertinent to obtaining timber, and it seems that their intersection is empty. The constraints for obtaining timber are: 1. A UK source is preferred (due to national pride?) 2. Price needs to be very cheap given the archeologists' non-profit budget 3. Veteran trees are necessary for a reconstruction, but specifically these are a scarce and precious resource. It seems likely that either they relax (1) or get funding/sponsorship to relax (2). (3) does not admit relaxation
- mzi 2y ago
  The could call Sweden and see if the can have some! In 1831 the Swedish crown started an oak plantation to supply the navy. My translation from Wikipedia[0]: In 1975 the agency in charge of the forest notified the head of the Navy that the timber was ready for harvest. The navy declined the offer since they had transitioned to new materials 0: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekplanteringarna_p%C3%A5_Visings%C3%B6 https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekplanteringarna_p%C3%A5_Visin...
  - throwup238 2y ago
    The French started their main managed oak forest for their Navy in the 1660s. The Forest of Bercé (among many others) recently supplied the restoration of Notre Dame including some trees that were 300+ years old. It’s pretty common in European coastal nations and since the transition to metal coincided with increased environmental awareness, many of them still survive. This project just wanted to use British wood but can’t afford commercial rates.
  - somat 2y ago
    The US Navy also had strategic woodlots, and as they keep a wooden ship around for ceremonial duties, currently maintain at least one woodlot to provide wood for it. https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2015/05/11/the-wooden-walls/ https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2015/05/11/the-wooden-wall...
- bjackman 2y ago
helsinkiandrew 2y ago
The specific requirements: https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruction-of-the-sutton-hoo-ship-2/ https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruc... Apparently they found some, although don’t say where from: > Two thirds of the ship's wooden planks have now been fitted and while the project had some trouble finding oak trees needed for this, Mr McMillan said they were expected a delivery next week. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2kxvkkw71go.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2kxvkkw71go.amp
fsckboy 2y ago
some historical data on oak in the British Navy: >At the zenith of Horatio Nelson’s navy in the late-1700s into the 1800s, it took about 4,000 oak trees, or up to 40 hectares of forest, to build a single 100-gun ship-of-the-line. That’s equivalent to 3,750 city blocks of optimum-density oak forest for a vessel that, on average, sailed for 12 years. https://legionmagazine.com/the-royal-navys-war-on-trees/ https://legionmagazine.com/the-royal-navys-war-on-trees/ >Oak trees planted on the orders of Lord Nelson will be used to restore HMS Victory in time for the bicentenary of the Battle of Trafalgar next year. In 1802, with his flagship in need of refitting, Nelson toured the Royal Forest of Dean, in Gloucestershire, with his mistress Lady Hamilton and her husband. He subsequently made a secret deal with the largest timber merchant to provide enough supplies for HMS Victory and to refit other ships. Nelson also recommended to Parliament that the Forest of Dean be replanted to safeguard timber supplies for the Navy, which was done in 1808. Two trees planted then will now be used to repair the gun decks of the Victory. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Oak+trees+planted+on+the+orders+of+Lord+Nelson+will+be+used+to...-a0119570582 https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Oak+trees+planted+on+the+orde... there was a really interesting oak-growing factoid I read about, but I can't seem to find it. For a particular structural element for a sailing ship, you wanted to use a tree that grew with a crook in it, I guess it provided a natural place to support the next deck up or something. I think it was Nelson who was growing some trees precisely for that. Anyway, I found this: the US Navy maintains an oak grove to provide wood for repairing the USS Constitution (the oldest commissioned warship still afloat). https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/uss-constitution-and-constitution-grove.html https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/uss-constituti... according to wikipedia, "Captain Cuthbert Collingwood, later to become an admiral and Nelson's second in command at Trafalgar, had his home at Morpeth, in Northumberland, and when he was there on half pay or on leave he loved to walk over the hills with his dog Bounce. He always started off with a handful of acorns in his pockets, and as he walked he would press an acorn into the soil whenever he saw a good place for an oak tree to grow."
- hgomersall 2y ago
  The Victory is still commissioned and predates the Constitution by 30 years or so. Edit: but I'm not sure it's still afloat!

37 points by zeristor 2y ago

They will better reconnect with their medieval history by having and keeping beautiful majestic living oak trees, as many as possible and as widespread in the country as possible. Their boat project is in no hurry. Why can't it wait the natural pace of the "donations", slow as it may be?

Smaug123 2y ago
The volunteers probably do want to live to see it done. The inhabitants of Woodbridge do not skew young, and the few pictures I was immediately able to find of the project suggest that the volunteers in fact skew old.
- henearkr 2y ago
  They could take it as a unique chance to experience/reenact a multi-generational project as it was common in the Middle Ages with the building of cathedrals or castles. Different times have different constraints, and so what constitues a multi-generational project varies.
benrutter 2y ago
I agree- I'm not sure how many readers realise how old old oak trees are. Britain is home to ancient oak trees that are seceral hundreds of years old, and connected in amazing ways to the ecosystem. Obviously nobody is suggested using ancient oak trees, but it gives some idea of the life span of an oak tree. A sutton hoo recreation would be amazing, but I'm not sure it justifies use of veteran stock over newer oak trees.
- zitsarethecure 2y ago
  A neighbor of mine here in the US cut down a nearly 300 year old white oak that was in his yard to make room for a kitchen addition. I saved a small piece of a branch that I turned into a bowl, but the rest of it was cut up for firewood.
graemep 2y ago
> To replace the trees that we are using, we planted 400 oak saplings https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruction-of-the-sutton-hoo-ship-2/ https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruc...

violettegabarae 2y ago

[dead]

YouWhy 2y ago

Experimental archeology is amazing! However the clash of this article as it is, is not very profound. Going over the article, it mentions three constraints pertinent to obtaining timber, and it seems that their intersection is empty. The constraints for obtaining timber are: 1. A UK source is preferred (due to national pride?) 2. Price needs to be very cheap given the archeologists' non-profit budget 3. Veteran trees are necessary for a reconstruction, but specifically these are a scarce and precious resource. It seems likely that either they relax (1) or get funding/sponsorship to relax (2). (3) does not admit relaxation

mzi 2y ago
The could call Sweden and see if the can have some! In 1831 the Swedish crown started an oak plantation to supply the navy. My translation from Wikipedia[0]: In 1975 the agency in charge of the forest notified the head of the Navy that the timber was ready for harvest. The navy declined the offer since they had transitioned to new materials 0: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekplanteringarna_p%C3%A5_Visings%C3%B6 https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ekplanteringarna_p%C3%A5_Visin...
- throwup238 2y ago
  The French started their main managed oak forest for their Navy in the 1660s. The Forest of Bercé (among many others) recently supplied the restoration of Notre Dame including some trees that were 300+ years old. It’s pretty common in European coastal nations and since the transition to metal coincided with increased environmental awareness, many of them still survive. This project just wanted to use British wood but can’t afford commercial rates.
- somat 2y ago
  The US Navy also had strategic woodlots, and as they keep a wooden ship around for ceremonial duties, currently maintain at least one woodlot to provide wood for it. https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2015/05/11/the-wooden-walls/ https://ussconstitutionmuseum.org/2015/05/11/the-wooden-wall...
bjackman 2y ago

helsinkiandrew 2y ago

The specific requirements: https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruction-of-the-sutton-hoo-ship-2/ https://saxonship.org/timber-requirements-for-the-reconstruc... Apparently they found some, although don’t say where from: > Two thirds of the ship's wooden planks have now been fitted and while the project had some trouble finding oak trees needed for this, Mr McMillan said they were expected a delivery next week. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2kxvkkw71go.amp https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c2kxvkkw71go.amp

fsckboy 2y ago

some historical data on oak in the British Navy: >At the zenith of Horatio Nelson’s navy in the late-1700s into the 1800s, it took about 4,000 oak trees, or up to 40 hectares of forest, to build a single 100-gun ship-of-the-line. That’s equivalent to 3,750 city blocks of optimum-density oak forest for a vessel that, on average, sailed for 12 years. https://legionmagazine.com/the-royal-navys-war-on-trees/ https://legionmagazine.com/the-royal-navys-war-on-trees/ >Oak trees planted on the orders of Lord Nelson will be used to restore HMS Victory in time for the bicentenary of the Battle of Trafalgar next year. In 1802, with his flagship in need of refitting, Nelson toured the Royal Forest of Dean, in Gloucestershire, with his mistress Lady Hamilton and her husband. He subsequently made a secret deal with the largest timber merchant to provide enough supplies for HMS Victory and to refit other ships. Nelson also recommended to Parliament that the Forest of Dean be replanted to safeguard timber supplies for the Navy, which was done in 1808. Two trees planted then will now be used to repair the gun decks of the Victory. https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Oak+trees+planted+on+the+orders+of+Lord+Nelson+will+be+used+to...-a0119570582 https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Oak+trees+planted+on+the+orde... there was a really interesting oak-growing factoid I read about, but I can't seem to find it. For a particular structural element for a sailing ship, you wanted to use a tree that grew with a crook in it, I guess it provided a natural place to support the next deck up or something. I think it was Nelson who was growing some trees precisely for that. Anyway, I found this: the US Navy maintains an oak grove to provide wood for repairing the USS Constitution (the oldest commissioned warship still afloat). https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/uss-constitution-and-constitution-grove.html https://www.warhistoryonline.com/war-articles/uss-constituti... according to wikipedia, "Captain Cuthbert Collingwood, later to become an admiral and Nelson's second in command at Trafalgar, had his home at Morpeth, in Northumberland, and when he was there on half pay or on leave he loved to walk over the hills with his dog Bounce. He always started off with a handful of acorns in his pockets, and as he walked he would press an acorn into the soil whenever he saw a good place for an oak tree to grow."

hgomersall 2y ago
The Victory is still commissioned and predates the Constitution by 30 years or so. Edit: but I'm not sure it's still afloat!