6 ms·

> Thankfully that future didn't happen and Windows is essentially only relevant for running PC games today. What an odd statement. You’re ignoring the vast maj

by 9dev 2y ago

> Thankfully that future didn't happen and Windows is essentially only relevant for running PC games today. What an odd statement. You’re ignoring the vast majority of all office computers all over the world here, the on-prem infrastructure of most companies, and cheap home computers. Not everyone can afford to buy a Mac; Office tools and huge swaths of domain-specific tools only run on Windows; and despite what Linux enthusiasts want you to believe, Linux doesn’t support existing Windows software well enough for common business use. You may be referring to the needs of rich software engineers in western countries exclusively here, but overwhelming majority of the world’s client computers are firmly in Microsoft’s hands.

flohofwoe 2y ago
Most relevant software today runs in web browsers or are cross-platform applications, so even when you have a Windows laptop, you probably spend most time in a web browser or a webview wrapped in an app and not in a native and exclusive Windows application. That's a very different situation from 20 years ago, where a lot of important software only existed for Windows. E.g. today you can just ditch Windows and install Linux on that same old laptop and wouldn't lose anything important.
- cpach 2y ago
  Also, for most people these days, Android and iOS are the primary operating systems in use. And you can’t easily run Windows applications there.
  - 9dev 2y ago
    You’re thinking of end users. The masses of office workers in the world are, and will continue to be, using Microsoft Office as their most important tool of trade, and thus will continue to run Windows.
- 9dev 2y ago
  As long as the browser variants of Microsoft Office aren’t as capable as their desktop variants, that isn’t relevant. CAD software is another contender that mostly requires a Windows environment; as is lots of financial software and industrial control tools. I agree with you that many people probably could use a Linux computer if there was any incentive to go that direction. That isn’t reality though, and likely won’t be any time soon.
- close04 2y ago
  Perhaps more importantly, given enough years and as the technology commoditizes, the "need" to take sides about whatever tech lessens. "Sides" are usually for the hot big thing in tech. But OSes are long past that phase and far too unexciting for most people to have the critical mass needed to create this kind of polarization.
- dTal 2y ago
  Found the programmer... You have an extremely skewed view of what "relevant software" is, if you believe this. The second you try and use a computer for anything professional, besides nerd stuff and a few key "creative" areas that Apple has cultural cachet in like music production and graphic design, you are absolutely going to find yourself reliant on some completely entrenched "industry standard" piece of software that's been around for many decades and only runs on Microsoft Windows. Autodesk still sells 3ds Max for a couple grand, and it's Windows-only. Hell, even TurboTax only runs on Windows. And if you manage to dodge that, there's bound to be some critical piece of hardware that can only be controlled from a Windows computer. The biggest propaganda win that Microsoft pulled was getting nerds - the biggest loudmouths about software freedom - off their case. 90s style free software fanaticism is basically dead. Meanwhile the rest of the world is absolutely still locked in to Windows. Know how you can tell? Because Windows is now widely regarded as a pile of shit, riddled with adware even out of the box ("Candy Crush in the Start menu") and yet people still use it, because they have to. >E.g. today you can just ditch Windows and install Linux on that same old laptop and wouldn't lose anything important. I challenge you to try this with a nontechnical friend who uses a computer for work. They will be screaming at you to put it back like it was within the week. I say this as a die-hard Linux user.
  - chasd00 2y ago
    > The biggest propaganda win that Microsoft pulled was getting nerds - the biggest loudmouths about software freedom - off their case it still amazes me how the newer generation of technical people see Microsoft as non-evil or, in some cases, even the good guy. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was re-convincing the world he doesn't exist. edit: wasn't the google motto "don't be evil" basically meant to mean don't be Microsoft?
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - bongodongobob 2y ago
      Try easily finding admins and heldesk staff to manage your 1000+ org using something other than Active Directory and M365. MS absolutely owns this space.
skeeter2020 2y ago
A massive amount of computing - especially outside of western & corporate offices - has moved to mobile. It's pretty wild as a developer who learned the trade when everything ran windows to now to target users who do their jobs with only a phone and don't even own what we historically call a "computer". Eventually those windows binaries and IIS apps will die as well, and MS has given up on Windows serving all those requests. They've done an amazing job of moving their business away from the OS in my view.
- 7thaccount 2y ago
  Oh I'm sure a lot has, but there is still a ton of Windows-only software out there. All those commercial tools engineers use to study the power grid are almost always Windows-only (at least the 10 major vendors I can think of off hand). I'm sure many other industries are similar. Also, all user laptops at a lot of corporations are Windows-only. It's changing of course, but not quickly.
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  And those mobile devices are managed with Intune/Azure.
bongodongobob 2y ago
HN has a blind spot for companies bigger than their startups. They don't realize how much large corps rely on AD/AAD/M365. For the vast majority of companies anything other than Windows/MS is a non-starter. This shit comes up in every single MS related submission.
- kdmtctl 2y ago
  This. _Didn't see it therefore it doesn't exist_.
spamizbad 2y ago
Office computers are a niche. A big niche, but still a niche: probably 500 million world-wide. Meanwhile there are 4.88 billion smartphone users.

by 9dev 2y ago

flohofwoe 2y ago

Most relevant software today runs in web browsers or are cross-platform applications, so even when you have a Windows laptop, you probably spend most time in a web browser or a webview wrapped in an app and not in a native and exclusive Windows application. That's a very different situation from 20 years ago, where a lot of important software only existed for Windows. E.g. today you can just ditch Windows and install Linux on that same old laptop and wouldn't lose anything important.

cpach 2y ago
Also, for most people these days, Android and iOS are the primary operating systems in use. And you can’t easily run Windows applications there.
- 9dev 2y ago
  You’re thinking of end users. The masses of office workers in the world are, and will continue to be, using Microsoft Office as their most important tool of trade, and thus will continue to run Windows.
9dev 2y ago
As long as the browser variants of Microsoft Office aren’t as capable as their desktop variants, that isn’t relevant. CAD software is another contender that mostly requires a Windows environment; as is lots of financial software and industrial control tools. I agree with you that many people probably could use a Linux computer if there was any incentive to go that direction. That isn’t reality though, and likely won’t be any time soon.
close04 2y ago
Perhaps more importantly, given enough years and as the technology commoditizes, the "need" to take sides about whatever tech lessens. "Sides" are usually for the hot big thing in tech. But OSes are long past that phase and far too unexciting for most people to have the critical mass needed to create this kind of polarization.
dTal 2y ago
Found the programmer... You have an extremely skewed view of what "relevant software" is, if you believe this. The second you try and use a computer for anything professional, besides nerd stuff and a few key "creative" areas that Apple has cultural cachet in like music production and graphic design, you are absolutely going to find yourself reliant on some completely entrenched "industry standard" piece of software that's been around for many decades and only runs on Microsoft Windows. Autodesk still sells 3ds Max for a couple grand, and it's Windows-only. Hell, even TurboTax only runs on Windows. And if you manage to dodge that, there's bound to be some critical piece of hardware that can only be controlled from a Windows computer. The biggest propaganda win that Microsoft pulled was getting nerds - the biggest loudmouths about software freedom - off their case. 90s style free software fanaticism is basically dead. Meanwhile the rest of the world is absolutely still locked in to Windows. Know how you can tell? Because Windows is now widely regarded as a pile of shit, riddled with adware even out of the box ("Candy Crush in the Start menu") and yet people still use it, because they have to. >E.g. today you can just ditch Windows and install Linux on that same old laptop and wouldn't lose anything important. I challenge you to try this with a nontechnical friend who uses a computer for work. They will be screaming at you to put it back like it was within the week. I say this as a die-hard Linux user.
- chasd00 2y ago
  > The biggest propaganda win that Microsoft pulled was getting nerds - the biggest loudmouths about software freedom - off their case it still amazes me how the newer generation of technical people see Microsoft as non-evil or, in some cases, even the good guy. The greatest trick the devil ever pulled was re-convincing the world he doesn't exist. edit: wasn't the google motto "don't be evil" basically meant to mean don't be Microsoft?
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    Try easily finding admins and heldesk staff to manage your 1000+ org using something other than Active Directory and M365. MS absolutely owns this space.

skeeter2020 2y ago

A massive amount of computing - especially outside of western & corporate offices - has moved to mobile. It's pretty wild as a developer who learned the trade when everything ran windows to now to target users who do their jobs with only a phone and don't even own what we historically call a "computer". Eventually those windows binaries and IIS apps will die as well, and MS has given up on Windows serving all those requests. They've done an amazing job of moving their business away from the OS in my view.

7thaccount 2y ago
Oh I'm sure a lot has, but there is still a ton of Windows-only software out there. All those commercial tools engineers use to study the power grid are almost always Windows-only (at least the 10 major vendors I can think of off hand). I'm sure many other industries are similar. Also, all user laptops at a lot of corporations are Windows-only. It's changing of course, but not quickly.
bongodongobob 2y ago
And those mobile devices are managed with Intune/Azure.

bongodongobob 2y ago

HN has a blind spot for companies bigger than their startups. They don't realize how much large corps rely on AD/AAD/M365. For the vast majority of companies anything other than Windows/MS is a non-starter. This shit comes up in every single MS related submission.

kdmtctl 2y ago
This. _Didn't see it therefore it doesn't exist_.

spamizbad 2y ago

Office computers are a niche. A big niche, but still a niche: probably 500 million world-wide. Meanwhile there are 4.88 billion smartphone users.