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> Sweden is a very corrupt capitalist country that is still riding the socialist image they created long ago. What I don't understand is how the people living

> Sweden is a very corrupt capitalist country that is still riding the socialist image they created long ago. What I don't understand is how the people living here can't see this. It's absolutely incomprehensible how naive they are. I don't know how the state could make it any clearer that it does not share their values and is not what people seem to think it is. That Sweden died long ago.

mantas 2y ago
That's what happens when government is pretty good for a long time and people get used to trusting it over multiple generations. This is the biggest cultural shock for 100%-eastern-european-me when I'm exposed to western europe. Why would people trust governments, media and so on? I'll never understand it. Do your own due diligence, prepare for the worst and brace for a beating from government which wants to sell you out. Is it a good way to live? Probably not. But looks like it's the natural state.
- guerrilla 2y ago
  They somhow forgot thaat their grandparents FORCED it to be good. That struggle is no different than any other movie now though, just something that happened. They things can be good without making them good. Some kind of just world fallacy on a cultural scale. I'm with you. I came fro the US. Trust is earned.
  - mantas 2y ago
    Was it really forced though? In US, it looks like society was (and still is, although results vary) on the outlook but force needs applied all the time. Meanwhile in Sweden, although I'm no expert of it's history, it looks like government itself decided to do good for shit and giggles. And then happily stuck to it's promise for generations. I've a similar feeling about other somewhat naive countries, e.g. Germany. It was outside forces after WW2. And even for mid-19th century one could argue that uniting German lands under Prussia was a somewhat outside force from perspective of a large chunk of Germans.
    - guappa 2y ago
      You have to understand that at the time communism was a real option. And while we now think they lived in poverty and so on, they didn't really have much worse conditions than the rest of europe right after the war. So governments had to do social reforms to avoid revolutions. The fact that now communism is no longer considered a viable option by most people is why now capitalism can go unchecked and reveal its true face.
    - guerrilla 2y ago
      Yes, it was really forced by labor unions, tenant unions and other active forms of organization who were at the time very aggressive. People died over it. There were general strikes, sabotage and liter am armed conflict over it. Things would have gotten much worse if the business cartel had not signed the peace accord. That's why they did, because they were forced to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltsj%C3%B6baden_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltsj%C3%B6baden_Agreement > Meanwhile in Sweden, although I'm no expert of it's history Stick to that intuition. Your story is far from accurate.
      - mantas 2y ago
        IMO the trust between swedish government and people started waaay earlier when Sweden ended its imperial ambitions and the royal family focused on inside. Agreements like above are important to labour rights, but it’s little compared to struggles other parts of the world came through. Just like labour rights are little compared to much bigger societal things like attempts to eradicate or assimilate whole ethnicities or force all sorts of social experiments on parts of the society. Where Sweden also has some history too, but it touched very small part of the society. And that society has very similar hostile feelings as far as I know.
        guerrilla 2y ago
        I don't want to be rude but why do you want to have opinions on this without knowing the history very well?

mantas 2y ago

That's what happens when government is pretty good for a long time and people get used to trusting it over multiple generations. This is the biggest cultural shock for 100%-eastern-european-me when I'm exposed to western europe. Why would people trust governments, media and so on? I'll never understand it. Do your own due diligence, prepare for the worst and brace for a beating from government which wants to sell you out. Is it a good way to live? Probably not. But looks like it's the natural state.

guerrilla 2y ago
They somhow forgot thaat their grandparents FORCED it to be good. That struggle is no different than any other movie now though, just something that happened. They things can be good without making them good. Some kind of just world fallacy on a cultural scale. I'm with you. I came fro the US. Trust is earned.
- mantas 2y ago
  Was it really forced though? In US, it looks like society was (and still is, although results vary) on the outlook but force needs applied all the time. Meanwhile in Sweden, although I'm no expert of it's history, it looks like government itself decided to do good for shit and giggles. And then happily stuck to it's promise for generations. I've a similar feeling about other somewhat naive countries, e.g. Germany. It was outside forces after WW2. And even for mid-19th century one could argue that uniting German lands under Prussia was a somewhat outside force from perspective of a large chunk of Germans.
  - guappa 2y ago
    You have to understand that at the time communism was a real option. And while we now think they lived in poverty and so on, they didn't really have much worse conditions than the rest of europe right after the war. So governments had to do social reforms to avoid revolutions. The fact that now communism is no longer considered a viable option by most people is why now capitalism can go unchecked and reveal its true face.
  - guerrilla 2y ago
    Yes, it was really forced by labor unions, tenant unions and other active forms of organization who were at the time very aggressive. People died over it. There were general strikes, sabotage and liter am armed conflict over it. Things would have gotten much worse if the business cartel had not signed the peace accord. That's why they did, because they were forced to. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltsj%C3%B6baden_Agreement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saltsj%C3%B6baden_Agreement > Meanwhile in Sweden, although I'm no expert of it's history Stick to that intuition. Your story is far from accurate.
    - mantas 2y ago
      IMO the trust between swedish government and people started waaay earlier when Sweden ended its imperial ambitions and the royal family focused on inside. Agreements like above are important to labour rights, but it’s little compared to struggles other parts of the world came through. Just like labour rights are little compared to much bigger societal things like attempts to eradicate or assimilate whole ethnicities or force all sorts of social experiments on parts of the society. Where Sweden also has some history too, but it touched very small part of the society. And that society has very similar hostile feelings as far as I know.
      - guerrilla 2y ago
        I don't want to be rude but why do you want to have opinions on this without knowing the history very well?