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The intensity of feeling within the Linux community towards Windows and Microsoft back then was intense. I remember turning up to my university CS course and wi

The intensity of feeling within the Linux community towards Windows and Microsoft back then was intense. I remember turning up to my university CS course and witnessing the formation of a Linux clique - if you ran windows you weren't really welcome! Dual-booting might get you reluctantly accepted though. I wonder if the same thing still goes on. It probably was quite an effective filter for the nerdiest and most obsessive people back in 1999, and it probably still is, but somehow that kind of mindset seems a bit outdated today. If it does still exist I'd be interested to know what kind of status macOS has! Literally nobody on the CS course had a Mac, despite the very cool and colourful iMacs being very popular.

mmsimanga 2y ago
I had a professor firmly in the Linux camp. Whenever he had to touch a computer running windows he wore gloves and goggles just like people working in biohazard environment would dress. I found it amusing rather than antagonistic. It was also a great conversation opener to discuss pros and cons of Linux.
CursedSilicon 2y ago
It's largely been replaced by tedious factional infighting. Particularly from younger Linux users. Waaay too many folks (particularly in places like Mastodon) make "using Linux" the majority of their personality. They live and breathe Linux. Fighting to ensure that "Winblows" users understand that Arch Linux is *THE ONLY WAY!* God forbid if you use a distro they don't then you're subjected to endless pithy criticism from on high about "well you wouldn't have this problem if you just used my distro!"
mgaunard 2y ago
I remember when I was in school (2006), if you wanted to be cool you had to use xmonad, mutt and irssi. And of course an IBM Thinkpad T42.
- akho 2y ago
  xmonad started in 2007.
  - andrelaszlo 2y ago
    REAL programmers are always off by one for some reason ;)
  - skeeter2020 2y ago
    assume one of you starts counting at zero, so you're both right.
  - int_19h 2y ago
    https://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/ https://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/ then
flohofwoe 2y ago
> but somehow that kind of mindset seems a bit outdated today It's hard to understand today because Windows isn't by far the overlord it was in the late 90s and early 2000s. Alternatives like Amiga, Atari, SGI, Sun and even the Mac were dead or on their deathbed, and it looked like there would only be one operating system in the future, and one that wasn't exactly a triumph of engineering. Thankfully that future didn't happen and Windows is essentially only relevant for running PC games today.
- 9dev 2y ago
  > Thankfully that future didn't happen and Windows is essentially only relevant for running PC games today. What an odd statement. You’re ignoring the vast majority of all office computers all over the world here, the on-prem infrastructure of most companies, and cheap home computers. Not everyone can afford to buy a Mac; Office tools and huge swaths of domain-specific tools only run on Windows; and despite what Linux enthusiasts want you to believe, Linux doesn’t support existing Windows software well enough for common business use. You may be referring to the needs of rich software engineers in western countries exclusively here, but overwhelming majority of the world’s client computers are firmly in Microsoft’s hands.
  - flohofwoe 2y ago
    Most relevant software today runs in web browsers or are cross-platform applications, so even when you have a Windows laptop, you probably spend most time in a web browser or a webview wrapped in an app and not in a native and exclusive Windows application. That's a very different situation from 20 years ago, where a lot of important software only existed for Windows. E.g. today you can just ditch Windows and install Linux on that same old laptop and wouldn't lose anything important.
    - cpach 2y ago
      Also, for most people these days, Android and iOS are the primary operating systems in use. And you can’t easily run Windows applications there.
Hilift 2y ago
> The intensity of feeling within the Linux community towards Windows and Microsoft back then was intense. Remember that Microsoft didn't really have an OS that didn't suck yet. Windows as we know it today did not exist, it was still Windows NT 4 and no directory. SQL Server 7 was released in 1998, but until that rewrite it was a product produced in large part another company (Sybase). Exchange Server (~1996) was the first product Microsoft developed from the ground up to replace an awful product and it was wildly successful, even before real Windows/AD landed in 1999. SQL Server eclipsed Exchange as the flagship product around 2010 or so. Macs were super popular on Ivy League campuses in the 1980's. Some schools sold Macs to students for $1,000 that retailed for $2,500. Some of the current Fedex Business Centers started as Kinkos locations that rented time on Macs by the hour. Microsoft changed the education landscape when they offered most of their commercial products for 10% of retail. They also do this for 501c3 non-profits. I believe _students_ get a different discount (~50%).
- yreg 2y ago
  Office and Copilot are free for students afaik. Windows used to be as well, not sure about the current state of things.
ToddWBurgess 2y ago
I was one of those Linux evangelists back in the 90s. Tried to get all the undergrads in my CS program migrated to Linux back in the day. Fun times.
bigstrat2003 2y ago
Outdated or not, that mindset was inappropriate then and it's inappropriate today. Granted I don't necessarily expect kids in college to know how to behave, but it isn't cool to be a dick to people just because they use one OS or the other. It's especially sad when you consider that these are a bunch of nerds, who know what it's like to be a social outcast, and then turn around and inflict that on one of their own.
- area51org 2y ago
  Fair enough, but this isn't about how cool it was that there were warring factions. There were reasons that the divide existed, and most of the reasons involved the behemoth Microsoft throwing its weight around and trying to bully the world of technology. People who ran Windows were seen as complicit, and in some ways, they actually were. Especially at the time, saying that both sides were obviously bad people because they had a beef with each other is a little like saying the Dark Side and the Jedi should have just stopped being assholes to each other. It's not that simple.
  - fancyfredbot 2y ago
    It wasn't exactly like that. It was cliquey but it wasn't like the crisps and bloods or anything.The windows people were typically either baffled by the Linux people or curious about them. There was a bit more attitude from the Linux side I think, but we're talking more about being sarcastic and mocking rather than hostile. These are late 90s CS students we're talking about here, they were a polite bunch generally.
- fancyfredbot 2y ago
  The idea you could make value judgements about a person based on the operating system on their computer was obviously crazy, even at the time. That said, I think some people genuinely believed Microsoft was evil and people who used/bought their software were irresponsible. A bit like the way environmentalists might look at someone who drives a 6 litre V8 around the suburbs I guess. I personally find it easier to understand the environmentalist and never could get too worked up about "M$ WinBl0wz" but I am pretty sure there were people who felt it was their moral duty to boycott interaction with Microsoft users. However crazy that sounds when written down.

mmsimanga 2y ago

I had a professor firmly in the Linux camp. Whenever he had to touch a computer running windows he wore gloves and goggles just like people working in biohazard environment would dress. I found it amusing rather than antagonistic. It was also a great conversation opener to discuss pros and cons of Linux.

CursedSilicon 2y ago

It's largely been replaced by tedious factional infighting. Particularly from younger Linux users. Waaay too many folks (particularly in places like Mastodon) make "using Linux" the majority of their personality. They live and breathe Linux. Fighting to ensure that "Winblows" users understand that Arch Linux is *THE ONLY WAY!* God forbid if you use a distro they don't then you're subjected to endless pithy criticism from on high about "well you wouldn't have this problem if you just used my distro!"

mgaunard 2y ago

I remember when I was in school (2006), if you wanted to be cool you had to use xmonad, mutt and irssi. And of course an IBM Thinkpad T42.

akho 2y ago
xmonad started in 2007.
- andrelaszlo 2y ago
  REAL programmers are always off by one for some reason ;)
- skeeter2020 2y ago
  assume one of you starts counting at zero, so you're both right.
- int_19h 2y ago
  https://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/ https://www.nongnu.org/ratpoison/ then

flohofwoe 2y ago

> but somehow that kind of mindset seems a bit outdated today It's hard to understand today because Windows isn't by far the overlord it was in the late 90s and early 2000s. Alternatives like Amiga, Atari, SGI, Sun and even the Mac were dead or on their deathbed, and it looked like there would only be one operating system in the future, and one that wasn't exactly a triumph of engineering. Thankfully that future didn't happen and Windows is essentially only relevant for running PC games today.

9dev 2y ago
> Thankfully that future didn't happen and Windows is essentially only relevant for running PC games today. What an odd statement. You’re ignoring the vast majority of all office computers all over the world here, the on-prem infrastructure of most companies, and cheap home computers. Not everyone can afford to buy a Mac; Office tools and huge swaths of domain-specific tools only run on Windows; and despite what Linux enthusiasts want you to believe, Linux doesn’t support existing Windows software well enough for common business use. You may be referring to the needs of rich software engineers in western countries exclusively here, but overwhelming majority of the world’s client computers are firmly in Microsoft’s hands.
- flohofwoe 2y ago
  Most relevant software today runs in web browsers or are cross-platform applications, so even when you have a Windows laptop, you probably spend most time in a web browser or a webview wrapped in an app and not in a native and exclusive Windows application. That's a very different situation from 20 years ago, where a lot of important software only existed for Windows. E.g. today you can just ditch Windows and install Linux on that same old laptop and wouldn't lose anything important.
  - cpach 2y ago
    Also, for most people these days, Android and iOS are the primary operating systems in use. And you can’t easily run Windows applications there.

Hilift 2y ago

> The intensity of feeling within the Linux community towards Windows and Microsoft back then was intense. Remember that Microsoft didn't really have an OS that didn't suck yet. Windows as we know it today did not exist, it was still Windows NT 4 and no directory. SQL Server 7 was released in 1998, but until that rewrite it was a product produced in large part another company (Sybase). Exchange Server (~1996) was the first product Microsoft developed from the ground up to replace an awful product and it was wildly successful, even before real Windows/AD landed in 1999. SQL Server eclipsed Exchange as the flagship product around 2010 or so. Macs were super popular on Ivy League campuses in the 1980's. Some schools sold Macs to students for $1,000 that retailed for $2,500. Some of the current Fedex Business Centers started as Kinkos locations that rented time on Macs by the hour. Microsoft changed the education landscape when they offered most of their commercial products for 10% of retail. They also do this for 501c3 non-profits. I believe _students_ get a different discount (~50%).

yreg 2y ago
Office and Copilot are free for students afaik. Windows used to be as well, not sure about the current state of things.

ToddWBurgess 2y ago

I was one of those Linux evangelists back in the 90s. Tried to get all the undergrads in my CS program migrated to Linux back in the day. Fun times.

bigstrat2003 2y ago

Outdated or not, that mindset was inappropriate then and it's inappropriate today. Granted I don't necessarily expect kids in college to know how to behave, but it isn't cool to be a dick to people just because they use one OS or the other. It's especially sad when you consider that these are a bunch of nerds, who know what it's like to be a social outcast, and then turn around and inflict that on one of their own.

area51org 2y ago
Fair enough, but this isn't about how cool it was that there were warring factions. There were reasons that the divide existed, and most of the reasons involved the behemoth Microsoft throwing its weight around and trying to bully the world of technology. People who ran Windows were seen as complicit, and in some ways, they actually were. Especially at the time, saying that both sides were obviously bad people because they had a beef with each other is a little like saying the Dark Side and the Jedi should have just stopped being assholes to each other. It's not that simple.
- fancyfredbot 2y ago
  It wasn't exactly like that. It was cliquey but it wasn't like the crisps and bloods or anything.The windows people were typically either baffled by the Linux people or curious about them. There was a bit more attitude from the Linux side I think, but we're talking more about being sarcastic and mocking rather than hostile. These are late 90s CS students we're talking about here, they were a polite bunch generally.
fancyfredbot 2y ago
The idea you could make value judgements about a person based on the operating system on their computer was obviously crazy, even at the time. That said, I think some people genuinely believed Microsoft was evil and people who used/bought their software were irresponsible. A bit like the way environmentalists might look at someone who drives a 6 litre V8 around the suburbs I guess. I personally find it easier to understand the environmentalist and never could get too worked up about "M$ WinBl0wz" but I am pretty sure there were people who felt it was their moral duty to boycott interaction with Microsoft users. However crazy that sounds when written down.