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Would have been a great opportunity to make money then by exporting their own nuclear power... if they hadn't shut a bunch of it down. Then they could have cho

Would have been a great opportunity to make money then by exporting their own nuclear power... if they hadn't shut a bunch of it down. Then they could have chosen to refund their own consumers, if that's what they wanted.

alecco 2y ago
The green coalition governments across the EU are leaving a huge mess behind. De-industrialization at a pace never seen before at peace times. China is happy to fill in the void.
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  How is China filling a void in local energy production? Exporting energy over those distances isn't viable. I mean granted, China's push to expand their solar panel production has led to affordable solar panels for a lot of home owners and communities, massively boosting solar / renewable energy adoption to the point that local energy grids are at capacity. Likewise, their push to expand production of batteries and cars has led to an influx of more affordable cars into Europe. But isn't that the wish / goal? More renewable energy, less dependence on petrol and gas and the like? It's just that both the US and Europe didn't invest and scale up as much and as fast as China was able to.
  - alecco 2y ago
    > How is China filling a void in local energy production? China is investing in power generation almost as much as the rest of the world combined. That energy is used by their massive and growing manufacturing industry. Bye bye EU manufacturing like cars. Note China wasn't even a significant exporter of cars just 10 years ago and now they are becoming dominant. Germany and the EU dug their grave. It would be hard to undo the damage now.
  - Jensson 2y ago
    You can export electricity in the form of product that needed electricity to make, like a bike.
- tcfhgj 2y ago
  Maybe this shows the beginning of the end of capitalism. Sustainability is just incompatible with capitalism
  - pelorat 2y ago
    Energy shouldn't be produced under capitalism IMO. Decades ago the government owned everything energy, and it was better, just like back when we had real postal services. Energy, water, sewage treatment. Nationalize all of it.
  - mantas 2y ago
    More like sustainability only seems to be possible with this crony-capitalism that is going on in european energy markets nowadays. It wouldn't survive nor pure capitalist market, nor as a state service.
tcfhgj 2y ago
As you can see in France, you don't make money with nuclear power. Nuclear power is basically taking a loan (national security and trash which has to be stored at least thousands of years) with a huge risk (nuclear disaster like Chernobyl or worse).
- Faelian2 2y ago
  France is literally making billions by exporting in electricity. https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/electricity/reporter/fra https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/electricity/r... It's France 9th biggest export.
  - tcfhgj 2y ago
    Yet, EDF is deep in debt (and I am not even sure they pay all of the cost of nuclear power themselves) and probably would not exist anymore if it was on its own. Now imagine infinite uranium and everyone using nuclear power. Where would they export now?
- Xelbair 2y ago
  Risk is minuscule, and modern reactors actually shut down gracefully. Nuclear waste is an issue, but frankly - vastly smaller one than other kinds of pollution(CO2 comes to mind - and sulfides) used in generating or storing - which is the biggest current problem of renewables - power, and that can be stored in relatively smaller space. This kind of misguided thinking has stopped us from utilizing nuclear power properly. It is a greatest stopgap we have before we find a way to store energy properly and can pivot to renewables.
  - tcfhgj 2y ago
    Miniscule probability of high damage. Everyone, every power,has to decide on their own if one is willing to take this risk. CO2 isn't a problem of renewables. In Germany, the problem with renewables is massively scaling green gas production. Storage exists plenty fairly cheap, even for hydrogen (Underground).

alecco 2y ago

The green coalition governments across the EU are leaving a huge mess behind. De-industrialization at a pace never seen before at peace times. China is happy to fill in the void.

Cthulhu_ 2y ago
How is China filling a void in local energy production? Exporting energy over those distances isn't viable. I mean granted, China's push to expand their solar panel production has led to affordable solar panels for a lot of home owners and communities, massively boosting solar / renewable energy adoption to the point that local energy grids are at capacity. Likewise, their push to expand production of batteries and cars has led to an influx of more affordable cars into Europe. But isn't that the wish / goal? More renewable energy, less dependence on petrol and gas and the like? It's just that both the US and Europe didn't invest and scale up as much and as fast as China was able to.
- alecco 2y ago
  > How is China filling a void in local energy production? China is investing in power generation almost as much as the rest of the world combined. That energy is used by their massive and growing manufacturing industry. Bye bye EU manufacturing like cars. Note China wasn't even a significant exporter of cars just 10 years ago and now they are becoming dominant. Germany and the EU dug their grave. It would be hard to undo the damage now.
- Jensson 2y ago
  You can export electricity in the form of product that needed electricity to make, like a bike.
tcfhgj 2y ago
Maybe this shows the beginning of the end of capitalism. Sustainability is just incompatible with capitalism
- pelorat 2y ago
  Energy shouldn't be produced under capitalism IMO. Decades ago the government owned everything energy, and it was better, just like back when we had real postal services. Energy, water, sewage treatment. Nationalize all of it.
- mantas 2y ago
  More like sustainability only seems to be possible with this crony-capitalism that is going on in european energy markets nowadays. It wouldn't survive nor pure capitalist market, nor as a state service.

tcfhgj 2y ago

As you can see in France, you don't make money with nuclear power. Nuclear power is basically taking a loan (national security and trash which has to be stored at least thousands of years) with a huge risk (nuclear disaster like Chernobyl or worse).

Faelian2 2y ago
France is literally making billions by exporting in electricity. https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/electricity/reporter/fra https://oec.world/en/profile/bilateral-product/electricity/r... It's France 9th biggest export.
- tcfhgj 2y ago
  Yet, EDF is deep in debt (and I am not even sure they pay all of the cost of nuclear power themselves) and probably would not exist anymore if it was on its own. Now imagine infinite uranium and everyone using nuclear power. Where would they export now?
Xelbair 2y ago
Risk is minuscule, and modern reactors actually shut down gracefully. Nuclear waste is an issue, but frankly - vastly smaller one than other kinds of pollution(CO2 comes to mind - and sulfides) used in generating or storing - which is the biggest current problem of renewables - power, and that can be stored in relatively smaller space. This kind of misguided thinking has stopped us from utilizing nuclear power properly. It is a greatest stopgap we have before we find a way to store energy properly and can pivot to renewables.
- tcfhgj 2y ago
  Miniscule probability of high damage. Everyone, every power,has to decide on their own if one is willing to take this risk. CO2 isn't a problem of renewables. In Germany, the problem with renewables is massively scaling green gas production. Storage exists plenty fairly cheap, even for hydrogen (Underground).