5 ms·

Easy to blame someone else. None of this is new, she's had more than enough time to compensate and Sweden is in the EU energy market by choice.

708145_ 2y ago
It is still true what she says. Having an interconnected electricity system is problematic when countries like Germany misbehave by having a horrible energy politics. That said, it would had been better in Sweden if they hadn't phased out nuclear too! There is a electricity shortage in south of Sweden where industries are denied establishing new initiatives.
- jamesblonde 2y ago
  Sweden has not phased out nuclear. A large portion of electricity generation is still nuclear.
  - 0points 2y ago
    That's revisionistic. Sweden started phasing out nuclear in 1999 and has since closed 6 of 12 reactors. - Barsebäck B1 and B2 was closed in 1999. - Oskarshamn O1 and O2 was closed in 2015 and 2017. - Rinhals R1 and R2 was closed in 2019 and 2020. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4rnkraft_i_Sverige#Avveckling_fr%C3%A5n_1999 https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4rnkraft_i_Sverige#Avvec...
    - tcfhgj 2y ago
      So they haven't actually phased out nuclear power, just reduced it.
      - willvarfar 2y ago
        Or perhaps they haven't been _replacing_ reactors as they reach end of life?
- willvarfar 2y ago
  There isn't an energy shortage in Sweden? Sweden has an overproduction of energy, it is just generally generated in the north (where the hydro is) and consumed in the south (where the people are). The 'shortage in the south' is just a political lens for explaining the high prices from the introduction of energy zones in 2011. Before then, there was one price for electricity in Sweden and this worked to the benefit of the consumer. Stepping back, do we really want the south to invest in _generating_ electricity? And if so, at what granularity? At the kommun level, or the län? At what point is that granularity ok but the whole-of-Sweden granularity that we had before the privatisation push is not ok?
  - mnky9800n 2y ago
    Does Sweden have a single power grid or is it segmented like Norway?
    - piva00 2y ago
      It's a single power grid but the transmission lines north->south are insufficient to carry all the potential electricity generated by hydro at peak production.
  - guappa 2y ago
    > Sweden has an overproduction of energy Yes, that's because all the industry had to move because of the no energy in sweden.
  - lawn 2y ago
    Even though countries may have a net export it doesn't mean they're always exporting.
- jillesvangurp 2y ago
  Actually this is a good thing. There's demand for energy so prices go up. This in turn makes investments in energy generation in Sweden more lucrative since they apparently have a lot of energy revenue coming in from abroad to finance more such projects. There are a lot of renewable energy projects in and around Sweden and the wider region. And of course they are actually manufacturing and exporting a lot of wind turbines as well. Wind technology is a substantial part of their economy. There is no energy shortage in Sweden. They can export as little or as much power as they want. But of course with prices being high that means they export a fair bit and that causes prices to rise. Which is causing Sweden to make a lot of money from this business. If they want lower prices locally, they should look at their local energy market, infrastructure, and regulations instead of blaming the Germans for being able to pay market rates for energy to Sweden.
  - queuep 2y ago
    > There is no energy shortage in Sweden. They can export as little or as much power as they want. This statement definitely needs a source. The EU have laws that require 70% of the produces electricity to be on the market. Source, in Swedish: https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/om-elmarknaden/export-och-import-av-el/ https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/om-elmarknaden/export-oc...
    - jillesvangurp 2y ago
      It's a net energy exporter; as many sources will confirm.
      - piva00 2y ago
        It is but that doesn't help us here in Sweden, we pay the highest bid price for the electricity generated here but being exported. The last government at least put in place windfall taxes to pay us back during the massive cost increase in the first winter after Russia invaded Ukraine. We got compensated a few months later the prices went insane. The current government already said they won't do that, which is rather absurd since a lot of our electricity is generated by Vatenfall, a state company.
InDubioProRubio 2y ago
And they can opt out by choice. Bitter infighting ensues in the russian gas addict frack den.
- rrr_oh_man 2y ago
  > Bitter infighting ensues in the russian gas addict frack den. Can you explain?
  - InDubioProRubio 2y ago
    Europe got dependent on cheap russian gas. And it escaped into a bubble of irresponsible behaviour, where the idea that economic realities on the ground mattered itself got faded out. Scream loud and en mass that the rain should go up on the streets- and politicans would promise you the rain would go up, by installing ventilation, physics would not apply to the citizen. Now the situation is different, and physics applies once more, everybody is screaming, but reality be a harsh mistress- she careth not for the sobbing.
MortyWaves 2y ago
In a similar vein it’s been absolutely nauseating hearing borderline corrupt Conservatives in the UK moaning at every opportunity at the state of the country and its institutions and the idealogical and deliberate decline and underfunding of all of it (including energy). Despite it being entirely their doing from almost 15 years of the Conservative government.
alecco 2y ago
But the Swedish government is taking blame for local shutdowns. The previous day her boss (PM) said so. The 4th paragraph reads: "“I realise that nobody is happy when I say that ‘if we hadn't shut down half of nuclear power, we wouldn't have these problems’. But it's true and it needs to be said.”, Kristersson said, referring to the previous Social Democrat-Greens coalition closing several nuclear reactors between 2019 and 2020 as part of a policy shift towards greater reliance on renewable energy sources." The Swedish Green coalition before them also did shutdowns like the German greens did. And now they have to suffer the consequences. Note that a lot of people are very shortsighted and might think "energy prices were better with the previous greens/labour/etc". They need to be reminded the causes of the crisis.
- ivan_gammel 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - sigh_again 2y ago
    The Greens had partnered with the SPD from 1998 to 2005 (and then again recently since 2021 but that's no related to the subject). They directly contributed to creating the Energiewende program. Merkel & friends implemented it, but saying the greens just "indicated preference" is utter bullshit. It's also the greens today trying to exclude any nuclear project from benefiting from grants at the European level. The Greens do not get to have their cake and eat it when they are, in fact, directly one of the sources of the current german problem. Those 232g CO2/kWH as I write (and over 700 last week) is exactly what they asked for when they pushed for a full renewable energy grid backed by hopes and dreams.
    - ivan_gammel 2y ago
      > Merkel & friends implemented it Do you mean they are puppets of the Greens and as opposition to red-green government could not reverse policies they have considered harmful? > directly one of the sources of the current german problem From 2005 to 2021 it was Merkel & Co in the government making most of the energy-related decisions, yet you single out Greens as the primary culprits. Why? Did they sign Nord Stream agreements? > It's also the greens today trying to exclude any nuclear project from benefiting from grants at the European level. How not starting any nuclear project now is relevant to the current situation? It’s a strange claim given the time and costs needed to build a single nuclear power plant. It’s would not solve anything in the next 10 years at least, will be the most expensive energy on the market and add a dependency on a external supplier outside of EU (you cannot seriously suggest that we should get our uranium from Africa or Kazakhstan, so it‘s going to be an American one, same terms as LNG?)
lawn 2y ago
Enough time? A nuclear reactor takes much longer than she's been at the office to build, and the Germans would still siphon off most of that electricity driving the price high nevertheless. Wind obviously wouldn't solve it (since, you know, the energy prices were so high because the wind didn't blow). The other actual solution would be something drastic like break away from EU energy market, is that what you're suggesting?
- wkat4242 2y ago
  The more obvious answer would have been to invest in national infrastructure to connect the hydro in the north to the consumers in the south rather than nuclear. Either way, she's responsible. The Germans are not. Their actions are an external factor she should have compensated for.
  - lawn 2y ago
    As others have commented on, it's not enough to just lay new cables and the lack of nuclear energy (or hydro or coal...) in the south is why the energy from the north can't reach the south.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - tcfhgj 2y ago
      A link would be helpful
  - Gud 2y ago
    Ebba Bush Thor has been a proponent of nuclear power investments for a long time. She has only recently come into a position where she can improve the situation. She is not at fault for Swedens disastrous energy politics.
Xelbair 2y ago
yeah, extremely so. Especially if the country shut downs their nuclear power plants in middle of energy crisis, while there are laws in place that mandate energy exchange between different EU and EU adjacent countries(Norway). Did they have time to handle it? No, adjusting your grid to be resilient to such bad actors takes more time.
- tcfhgj 2y ago
  Who shut down nuclear within of an energy crisis?
  - Xelbair 2y ago
    Germany? When war in Ukraine started and sourcing cheap gas has become a problem - energy is is more than just electricity, although some of gas was also used for that. Please, don't tie your economy to cheap gas from one source and try to bring everyone down with you when the access to it is constrained.
    - tcfhgj 2y ago
      No, Germany didn't. They waited until the crisis was over.

708145_ 2y ago

It is still true what she says. Having an interconnected electricity system is problematic when countries like Germany misbehave by having a horrible energy politics. That said, it would had been better in Sweden if they hadn't phased out nuclear too! There is a electricity shortage in south of Sweden where industries are denied establishing new initiatives.

jamesblonde 2y ago
Sweden has not phased out nuclear. A large portion of electricity generation is still nuclear.
- 0points 2y ago
  That's revisionistic. Sweden started phasing out nuclear in 1999 and has since closed 6 of 12 reactors. - Barsebäck B1 and B2 was closed in 1999. - Oskarshamn O1 and O2 was closed in 2015 and 2017. - Rinhals R1 and R2 was closed in 2019 and 2020. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4rnkraft_i_Sverige#Avveckling_fr%C3%A5n_1999 https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A4rnkraft_i_Sverige#Avvec...
  - tcfhgj 2y ago
    So they haven't actually phased out nuclear power, just reduced it.
    - willvarfar 2y ago
      Or perhaps they haven't been _replacing_ reactors as they reach end of life?
willvarfar 2y ago
There isn't an energy shortage in Sweden? Sweden has an overproduction of energy, it is just generally generated in the north (where the hydro is) and consumed in the south (where the people are). The 'shortage in the south' is just a political lens for explaining the high prices from the introduction of energy zones in 2011. Before then, there was one price for electricity in Sweden and this worked to the benefit of the consumer. Stepping back, do we really want the south to invest in _generating_ electricity? And if so, at what granularity? At the kommun level, or the län? At what point is that granularity ok but the whole-of-Sweden granularity that we had before the privatisation push is not ok?
- mnky9800n 2y ago
  Does Sweden have a single power grid or is it segmented like Norway?
  - piva00 2y ago
    It's a single power grid but the transmission lines north->south are insufficient to carry all the potential electricity generated by hydro at peak production.
- guappa 2y ago
  > Sweden has an overproduction of energy Yes, that's because all the industry had to move because of the no energy in sweden.
- lawn 2y ago
  Even though countries may have a net export it doesn't mean they're always exporting.
jillesvangurp 2y ago
Actually this is a good thing. There's demand for energy so prices go up. This in turn makes investments in energy generation in Sweden more lucrative since they apparently have a lot of energy revenue coming in from abroad to finance more such projects. There are a lot of renewable energy projects in and around Sweden and the wider region. And of course they are actually manufacturing and exporting a lot of wind turbines as well. Wind technology is a substantial part of their economy. There is no energy shortage in Sweden. They can export as little or as much power as they want. But of course with prices being high that means they export a fair bit and that causes prices to rise. Which is causing Sweden to make a lot of money from this business. If they want lower prices locally, they should look at their local energy market, infrastructure, and regulations instead of blaming the Germans for being able to pay market rates for energy to Sweden.
- queuep 2y ago
  > There is no energy shortage in Sweden. They can export as little or as much power as they want. This statement definitely needs a source. The EU have laws that require 70% of the produces electricity to be on the market. Source, in Swedish: https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/om-elmarknaden/export-och-import-av-el/ https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/om-elmarknaden/export-oc...
  - jillesvangurp 2y ago
    It's a net energy exporter; as many sources will confirm.
    - piva00 2y ago
      It is but that doesn't help us here in Sweden, we pay the highest bid price for the electricity generated here but being exported. The last government at least put in place windfall taxes to pay us back during the massive cost increase in the first winter after Russia invaded Ukraine. We got compensated a few months later the prices went insane. The current government already said they won't do that, which is rather absurd since a lot of our electricity is generated by Vatenfall, a state company.

InDubioProRubio 2y ago

And they can opt out by choice. Bitter infighting ensues in the russian gas addict frack den.

rrr_oh_man 2y ago
> Bitter infighting ensues in the russian gas addict frack den. Can you explain?
- InDubioProRubio 2y ago
  Europe got dependent on cheap russian gas. And it escaped into a bubble of irresponsible behaviour, where the idea that economic realities on the ground mattered itself got faded out. Scream loud and en mass that the rain should go up on the streets- and politicans would promise you the rain would go up, by installing ventilation, physics would not apply to the citizen. Now the situation is different, and physics applies once more, everybody is screaming, but reality be a harsh mistress- she careth not for the sobbing.

MortyWaves 2y ago

In a similar vein it’s been absolutely nauseating hearing borderline corrupt Conservatives in the UK moaning at every opportunity at the state of the country and its institutions and the idealogical and deliberate decline and underfunding of all of it (including energy). Despite it being entirely their doing from almost 15 years of the Conservative government.

alecco 2y ago

But the Swedish government is taking blame for local shutdowns. The previous day her boss (PM) said so. The 4th paragraph reads: "“I realise that nobody is happy when I say that ‘if we hadn't shut down half of nuclear power, we wouldn't have these problems’. But it's true and it needs to be said.”, Kristersson said, referring to the previous Social Democrat-Greens coalition closing several nuclear reactors between 2019 and 2020 as part of a policy shift towards greater reliance on renewable energy sources." The Swedish Green coalition before them also did shutdowns like the German greens did. And now they have to suffer the consequences. Note that a lot of people are very shortsighted and might think "energy prices were better with the previous greens/labour/etc". They need to be reminded the causes of the crisis.

ivan_gammel 2y ago
[flagged]
- sigh_again 2y ago
  The Greens had partnered with the SPD from 1998 to 2005 (and then again recently since 2021 but that's no related to the subject). They directly contributed to creating the Energiewende program. Merkel & friends implemented it, but saying the greens just "indicated preference" is utter bullshit. It's also the greens today trying to exclude any nuclear project from benefiting from grants at the European level. The Greens do not get to have their cake and eat it when they are, in fact, directly one of the sources of the current german problem. Those 232g CO2/kWH as I write (and over 700 last week) is exactly what they asked for when they pushed for a full renewable energy grid backed by hopes and dreams.
  - ivan_gammel 2y ago
    > Merkel & friends implemented it Do you mean they are puppets of the Greens and as opposition to red-green government could not reverse policies they have considered harmful? > directly one of the sources of the current german problem From 2005 to 2021 it was Merkel & Co in the government making most of the energy-related decisions, yet you single out Greens as the primary culprits. Why? Did they sign Nord Stream agreements? > It's also the greens today trying to exclude any nuclear project from benefiting from grants at the European level. How not starting any nuclear project now is relevant to the current situation? It’s a strange claim given the time and costs needed to build a single nuclear power plant. It’s would not solve anything in the next 10 years at least, will be the most expensive energy on the market and add a dependency on a external supplier outside of EU (you cannot seriously suggest that we should get our uranium from Africa or Kazakhstan, so it‘s going to be an American one, same terms as LNG?)

lawn 2y ago

Enough time? A nuclear reactor takes much longer than she's been at the office to build, and the Germans would still siphon off most of that electricity driving the price high nevertheless. Wind obviously wouldn't solve it (since, you know, the energy prices were so high because the wind didn't blow). The other actual solution would be something drastic like break away from EU energy market, is that what you're suggesting?

wkat4242 2y ago
The more obvious answer would have been to invest in national infrastructure to connect the hydro in the north to the consumers in the south rather than nuclear. Either way, she's responsible. The Germans are not. Their actions are an external factor she should have compensated for.
- lawn 2y ago
  As others have commented on, it's not enough to just lay new cables and the lack of nuclear energy (or hydro or coal...) in the south is why the energy from the north can't reach the south.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - tcfhgj 2y ago
    A link would be helpful
- Gud 2y ago
  Ebba Bush Thor has been a proponent of nuclear power investments for a long time. She has only recently come into a position where she can improve the situation. She is not at fault for Swedens disastrous energy politics.

Xelbair 2y ago

yeah, extremely so. Especially if the country shut downs their nuclear power plants in middle of energy crisis, while there are laws in place that mandate energy exchange between different EU and EU adjacent countries(Norway). Did they have time to handle it? No, adjusting your grid to be resilient to such bad actors takes more time.

tcfhgj 2y ago
Who shut down nuclear within of an energy crisis?
- Xelbair 2y ago
  Germany? When war in Ukraine started and sourcing cheap gas has become a problem - energy is is more than just electricity, although some of gas was also used for that. Please, don't tie your economy to cheap gas from one source and try to bring everyone down with you when the access to it is constrained.
  - tcfhgj 2y ago
    No, Germany didn't. They waited until the crisis was over.