5 ms·

What if (somewhat borrowing an idea from PG actually, but I think this might be a bit more feasible) big tech companies started retaliating against trolls and l

What if (somewhat borrowing an idea from PG actually, but I think this might be a bit more feasible) big tech companies started retaliating against trolls and lawyers who support them by banning them from their services. These guys (lawyer's site) have a linkedin link on the front page. What if they were banned from that. Do they use gmail or other google services? Banned Facebook? Banned Obviously it's actually probably excitingly hard to maintain this list with an accuracy but it's an entertaining thought experiment. Do you support and supply service to patent trolls and their lawyers who harm the community and may one day actually sue you?

jvehent 14y ago
what if, instead, you would just let them use your service, and simply spy on them ?
noonespecial 14y ago
If insurance companies can charge me quadruple premiums for the rest of my life for a trivial "existing condition", or prevent me from insuring my home because I once filed a flood claim, I think tech companies can find a way to freeze out trolls. We just need a CLUE database for trolls.
farmdawgnation 14y ago
There's actually precedent for this in other industries. Some rental leases include clauses that say they can throw you out if you're found guilty of libel and slander against the real estate company. Of course, they've got to prove that first - but same deal.
cma 14y ago
Taft Hartley prevents secondary strikes/boycotts, it potentially makes this strategy illegal.
- bazzargh 14y ago
  Not quite. Taft Hartley prevents labour organizations from pressuring workers into boycotts. I don't think its applicable. http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1069361?uid=3738032&uid=2&uid=4&sid=56306811463 http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1069361?uid=3738032&#3... The suggested strategy doesn't seem all that different from the Open Invention Network to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Invention_Network http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Invention_Network
edouard1234567 14y ago
This reminds me of the cold war. Big powerful countries growing their arsenal of WOMD to dissuade each other from attacking. Using them against the other side would mean self destruction, so instead they agree they won't let any other country get them : non proliferation treaties... . But this only works when you have something to loose that's why we are so afraid of fanatics getting their hands on WOMDs, they can't be dissuaded and these treaties have no effect on them. Today big tech companies amass patents of mass destruction (POMD) to dissuade each other from suing. Unfortunately this doesn't work against patent trolls because they have nothing to lose. So what you are suggesting is a kind of patriot act against the "technology terrorists" and start a war against patent trolling! :)
- firebones 14y ago
  I think you're describing asymmetric warfare. Study of countermeasures for asymmetric warfare would be fertile ground for learning how to counteract the trolls. I'm not a real student of this, but off the top of my head the techniques used in real asymmetric warfare include: * Buying off the enemy (pallets of $100 bills to Afghanistan) * Drone strikes (perhaps not quite yet feasible, although domestic drone usage is increasing and no doubt gives corporate legal teams hope) * Win the hearts and minds of the locals (equivalent: raise awareness in the judiciary so they no longer give aid and comfort to trolls) * Supply them with arms (have them do your bidding by harassing competitors in exchange for not harassing you further) * Legalize it (stop drug cartels by taking the economic incentive away from their profit center--in this case, change law to strip away their incentives) What else?
pooriaazimi 14y ago
These trolls haven't been appeared from thin air. The same (giant) companies are behind them. See here for example: "Apple And Microsoft Behind Patent Troll Armed With Thousands Of Nortel Patents" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4027246 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4027246 (And don't think Facebook or Google are any better than Apple or MS. They just don't have enough patents.)
rz2k 14y ago
What do you think about consumers who complain about their ISP? Or, should you be able to call the police while you're being robbed if you sued as a victim of police brutality in the past? The claims seem absurd, but that doesn't mean the plaintiff should be fought using any means possible including outside of court. It sets a terrible precedent, and would apply to plaintiffs you're more likely to agree with. Really, even Samsung and Apple continue to do business with each other in the midst of suing eachother.
- noonespecial 14y ago
  They are perfectly free to continue their use (misuse) of the laws and the courts. Just as technology companies are free to sell things (or not) where, when, and to whom(1) they choose. I for one would enjoy seeing a company refuse to ship goods to that entire wacky eastern Texas district that made such a nuisance of itself by supporting trolls. (1) With obvious limitations on race religion etc.
pasbesoin 14y ago
It's been on my mind for a long time, although in a broader context. It seems one of the avenues left to "us" "reasonable" people is, to use the antiquated term, "shunning". With facial recognition and the like, it could even be taken down to the individual context and innumerable situations. Though I consider this a dangerous path to tread. Such people may have large bank balances. But if "nobody" -- or at least, nobody they need and of above average competence -- will take their money, perhaps that would send a message. Or, sink them. Either way. The message being, no matter how "rich" you are, you are part of and embedded in a larger community. No [one] is an island. Or, "don't sh-t where you..."

jvehent 14y ago

what if, instead, you would just let them use your service, and simply spy on them ?

noonespecial 14y ago

If insurance companies can charge me quadruple premiums for the rest of my life for a trivial "existing condition", or prevent me from insuring my home because I once filed a flood claim, I think tech companies can find a way to freeze out trolls. We just need a CLUE database for trolls.

farmdawgnation 14y ago

There's actually precedent for this in other industries. Some rental leases include clauses that say they can throw you out if you're found guilty of libel and slander against the real estate company. Of course, they've got to prove that first - but same deal.

cma 14y ago

Taft Hartley prevents secondary strikes/boycotts, it potentially makes this strategy illegal.

bazzargh 14y ago
Not quite. Taft Hartley prevents labour organizations from pressuring workers into boycotts. I don't think its applicable. http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1069361?uid=3738032&uid=2&uid=4&sid=56306811463 http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/1069361?uid=3738032&#3... The suggested strategy doesn't seem all that different from the Open Invention Network to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Invention_Network http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Invention_Network

edouard1234567 14y ago

This reminds me of the cold war. Big powerful countries growing their arsenal of WOMD to dissuade each other from attacking. Using them against the other side would mean self destruction, so instead they agree they won't let any other country get them : non proliferation treaties... . But this only works when you have something to loose that's why we are so afraid of fanatics getting their hands on WOMDs, they can't be dissuaded and these treaties have no effect on them. Today big tech companies amass patents of mass destruction (POMD) to dissuade each other from suing. Unfortunately this doesn't work against patent trolls because they have nothing to lose. So what you are suggesting is a kind of patriot act against the "technology terrorists" and start a war against patent trolling! :)

firebones 14y ago
I think you're describing asymmetric warfare. Study of countermeasures for asymmetric warfare would be fertile ground for learning how to counteract the trolls. I'm not a real student of this, but off the top of my head the techniques used in real asymmetric warfare include: * Buying off the enemy (pallets of $100 bills to Afghanistan) * Drone strikes (perhaps not quite yet feasible, although domestic drone usage is increasing and no doubt gives corporate legal teams hope) * Win the hearts and minds of the locals (equivalent: raise awareness in the judiciary so they no longer give aid and comfort to trolls) * Supply them with arms (have them do your bidding by harassing competitors in exchange for not harassing you further) * Legalize it (stop drug cartels by taking the economic incentive away from their profit center--in this case, change law to strip away their incentives) What else?

pooriaazimi 14y ago

These trolls haven't been appeared from thin air. The same (giant) companies are behind them. See here for example: "Apple And Microsoft Behind Patent Troll Armed With Thousands Of Nortel Patents" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4027246 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4027246 (And don't think Facebook or Google are any better than Apple or MS. They just don't have enough patents.)

rz2k 14y ago

What do you think about consumers who complain about their ISP? Or, should you be able to call the police while you're being robbed if you sued as a victim of police brutality in the past? The claims seem absurd, but that doesn't mean the plaintiff should be fought using any means possible including outside of court. It sets a terrible precedent, and would apply to plaintiffs you're more likely to agree with. Really, even Samsung and Apple continue to do business with each other in the midst of suing eachother.

noonespecial 14y ago
They are perfectly free to continue their use (misuse) of the laws and the courts. Just as technology companies are free to sell things (or not) where, when, and to whom(1) they choose. I for one would enjoy seeing a company refuse to ship goods to that entire wacky eastern Texas district that made such a nuisance of itself by supporting trolls. (1) With obvious limitations on race religion etc.

pasbesoin 14y ago

It's been on my mind for a long time, although in a broader context. It seems one of the avenues left to "us" "reasonable" people is, to use the antiquated term, "shunning". With facial recognition and the like, it could even be taken down to the individual context and innumerable situations. Though I consider this a dangerous path to tread. Such people may have large bank balances. But if "nobody" -- or at least, nobody they need and of above average competence -- will take their money, perhaps that would send a message. Or, sink them. Either way. The message being, no matter how "rich" you are, you are part of and embedded in a larger community. No [one] is an island. Or, "don't sh-t where you..."