4 ms·

I don't know any single anti-gun-regulation person who manufactures guns. Anyways. I am not app developer blah blah and I'm against this. Don't want your kids t

I don't know any single anti-gun-regulation person who manufactures guns. Anyways. I am not app developer blah blah and I'm against this. Don't want your kids to be cash cows? Don't give them a credit card...?

onlyontheapi 2y ago
do they drive revenue from ads too?
- thrw42A8N 2y ago
  What ads? The ads I blocked with PiHole?
  - frde_me 2y ago
    You just went to where 99% of parents don't even know how to get to. Do you think it should be expected of parents to figure out how to use whatever "PiHole" is to protect their kids? I admire your personal dedication to making it as hard as possible to be exploited, but we really can't expect non-tech people to go to the same lengths. And at one point, we might have to admit that parents who spend 99% of their time struggling to even get by and do the basics for their kids need schools and other resources to help out by doing things such as banning phones.
    - thrw42A8N 2y ago
      My point is - it's under my control, if I didn't know how to do this I'd either accept the ads, pay, or not allow phone usage. There are options. I don't need the government to do that for me, I can decide myself. Here in Europe, phone is necessary for daily life - even as a kid. And it makes it so much easier, better - and interesting, if you teach your kids that. My kids use their phone like a Star Trek tricorder, using various apps and tools to learn about the world around them. Something I wished was possible when I was a kid but it was a pure scifi - now it's here and I'm not going to take that away from them just because some bureaucrat thinks parents can't control their kids enough.
      - frde_me 2y ago
        I'm going to go to an extreme, but if we had solid research that said banning phones at school resulted in some extreme, lets say 50%, improvement in their ability to learn, would you support the ban of phones during school time? Would you expect the school to _not_ implement a policy that would benefit learning that much? What if we swapped this out for "not taking edibles during class", would that infringe on your kids personal freedom too much? In a world where parents feed their children fast food all the time, and let them play mindless Ipad games from an early age, I have lower faith in every parent reading the relevant literature and implementing best practices than I have in academic institutions figuring out how to optimize learning (not that I have a huge amount of faith in that either, just more)
        thrw42A8N 2y ago
        No, I wouldn't support that policy. That would be like banning paper because someone prints porn on it. Absurd.
        frde_me 2y ago
        If I follow through what you said, paper has obvious positive impact in schools, or we can at least imagine that positive impact. And so banning paper would be very likely not to result in an improvement if studied. And like any smartphone ban, it _should_ be studied rigorously before implementing. But lets say they do find that smart phones during class _are_ good, but just social media is bad, then it also sounds reasonable to me that a kids phone might be required to have some type of block on social media app during class time. Just like it sounds reasonable for a school to ban papers _with porn printed on them_ during class time. There's no issue besides on a practical level with getting more fine grained and isolating the impact. Or do you also oppose that later, is your kid printing porn on paper and bringing it to school part of the personal freedom you want control over and which the school should not have to authority to ban?
        thrw42A8N 2y ago
        I'm pretty fine with restrictions on usage during class time - but not by direct remote control of such personal devices. The goal is to improve education and prepare children for life in the modern world. That can't be done without a smartphone, the most important item of most people that they use to run their lives. Today, many normal people don't even have desktop computers, they do everything on phones. That has privacy implications on what is reasonable to do with a person's phone - even a child has right to their privacy (in reasonable limits of course).
kelipso 2y ago
Acting like kids are so easily controlled. You just need the passcode if you credit card is in apple wallet, for example.
- thrw42A8N 2y ago
  Why would my credit card be in their Apple Wallet?
  - kelipso 2y ago
    Point is that things happen if you are not super careful. They could use your phone, you could have forgotten about it, etc etc. Not everyone is some carefully planning nerd who remembers everything all the time.
    - thrw42A8N 2y ago
      If they use my phone to purchase something, abusing my access code in the process, they are grounded for weeks and many other privileges will be taken away. I myself have never dared to touch my father's wallet or phone, or even look at him typing his password.
    - sourcepluck 2y ago
      > Not everyone is some carefully planning nerd who remembers everything all the time. I chuckled at this. The "carefully planning nerds" are being ruthlessly called out here, and I for one did not see it coming.
  - criddell 2y ago
    For very small children it probably doesn't make sense, but when they get a bit older it's not that unusual. My kids have my credit card on their phone for when they need it. They are also joint owners of our bank accounts. We've told them if they ever get the news that we have died, they should go withdraw a bunch of money to carry them over until all the estate stuff settles.
    - 2y ago
gmerc 2y ago
Attention itself is being milked, it has very little to do with money on the frontline. We a/b test these products, genetically pruning them to maximum addictiveness ("time spent on platform") and peer pressure / virality and we're maximizing people's attention spent. Adults are unable to handle it, kids even less so. Even if you play Roblox for free, you're a) still critical to the developer (whale economics require many peasants for the whales to feel comfortable spending themselves to higher status), and you're still trading off activities that benefit you long term (reading, learning, actually interacting with the non toxic world)
- gxs 2y ago
  Exactly, the fact that people think this comment has to do with explicit credit card transactions shows how unaware people are of all the other implications. You said it best - the currency is eyeballs - even if you aren’t spending they want your attention without a single regard for the consequences. One of those things that seems benign for any given app, but in aggregate has negative effects after hours/days/weeks/years of screen time and interactions with all the attention stealing content.

onlyontheapi 2y ago

do they drive revenue from ads too?

thrw42A8N 2y ago
What ads? The ads I blocked with PiHole?
- frde_me 2y ago
  You just went to where 99% of parents don't even know how to get to. Do you think it should be expected of parents to figure out how to use whatever "PiHole" is to protect their kids? I admire your personal dedication to making it as hard as possible to be exploited, but we really can't expect non-tech people to go to the same lengths. And at one point, we might have to admit that parents who spend 99% of their time struggling to even get by and do the basics for their kids need schools and other resources to help out by doing things such as banning phones.
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    My point is - it's under my control, if I didn't know how to do this I'd either accept the ads, pay, or not allow phone usage. There are options. I don't need the government to do that for me, I can decide myself. Here in Europe, phone is necessary for daily life - even as a kid. And it makes it so much easier, better - and interesting, if you teach your kids that. My kids use their phone like a Star Trek tricorder, using various apps and tools to learn about the world around them. Something I wished was possible when I was a kid but it was a pure scifi - now it's here and I'm not going to take that away from them just because some bureaucrat thinks parents can't control their kids enough.
    - frde_me 2y ago
      I'm going to go to an extreme, but if we had solid research that said banning phones at school resulted in some extreme, lets say 50%, improvement in their ability to learn, would you support the ban of phones during school time? Would you expect the school to _not_ implement a policy that would benefit learning that much? What if we swapped this out for "not taking edibles during class", would that infringe on your kids personal freedom too much? In a world where parents feed their children fast food all the time, and let them play mindless Ipad games from an early age, I have lower faith in every parent reading the relevant literature and implementing best practices than I have in academic institutions figuring out how to optimize learning (not that I have a huge amount of faith in that either, just more)
      - thrw42A8N 2y ago
        No, I wouldn't support that policy. That would be like banning paper because someone prints porn on it. Absurd.
        frde_me 2y ago
        If I follow through what you said, paper has obvious positive impact in schools, or we can at least imagine that positive impact. And so banning paper would be very likely not to result in an improvement if studied. And like any smartphone ban, it _should_ be studied rigorously before implementing. But lets say they do find that smart phones during class _are_ good, but just social media is bad, then it also sounds reasonable to me that a kids phone might be required to have some type of block on social media app during class time. Just like it sounds reasonable for a school to ban papers _with porn printed on them_ during class time. There's no issue besides on a practical level with getting more fine grained and isolating the impact. Or do you also oppose that later, is your kid printing porn on paper and bringing it to school part of the personal freedom you want control over and which the school should not have to authority to ban?
        thrw42A8N 2y ago
        I'm pretty fine with restrictions on usage during class time - but not by direct remote control of such personal devices. The goal is to improve education and prepare children for life in the modern world. That can't be done without a smartphone, the most important item of most people that they use to run their lives. Today, many normal people don't even have desktop computers, they do everything on phones. That has privacy implications on what is reasonable to do with a person's phone - even a child has right to their privacy (in reasonable limits of course).

kelipso 2y ago

Acting like kids are so easily controlled. You just need the passcode if you credit card is in apple wallet, for example.

thrw42A8N 2y ago
Why would my credit card be in their Apple Wallet?
- kelipso 2y ago
  Point is that things happen if you are not super careful. They could use your phone, you could have forgotten about it, etc etc. Not everyone is some carefully planning nerd who remembers everything all the time.
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    If they use my phone to purchase something, abusing my access code in the process, they are grounded for weeks and many other privileges will be taken away. I myself have never dared to touch my father's wallet or phone, or even look at him typing his password.
  - sourcepluck 2y ago
    > Not everyone is some carefully planning nerd who remembers everything all the time. I chuckled at this. The "carefully planning nerds" are being ruthlessly called out here, and I for one did not see it coming.
- criddell 2y ago
  For very small children it probably doesn't make sense, but when they get a bit older it's not that unusual. My kids have my credit card on their phone for when they need it. They are also joint owners of our bank accounts. We've told them if they ever get the news that we have died, they should go withdraw a bunch of money to carry them over until all the estate stuff settles.
  - 2y ago

gmerc 2y ago

Attention itself is being milked, it has very little to do with money on the frontline. We a/b test these products, genetically pruning them to maximum addictiveness ("time spent on platform") and peer pressure / virality and we're maximizing people's attention spent. Adults are unable to handle it, kids even less so. Even if you play Roblox for free, you're a) still critical to the developer (whale economics require many peasants for the whales to feel comfortable spending themselves to higher status), and you're still trading off activities that benefit you long term (reading, learning, actually interacting with the non toxic world)

gxs 2y ago
Exactly, the fact that people think this comment has to do with explicit credit card transactions shows how unaware people are of all the other implications. You said it best - the currency is eyeballs - even if you aren’t spending they want your attention without a single regard for the consequences. One of those things that seems benign for any given app, but in aggregate has negative effects after hours/days/weeks/years of screen time and interactions with all the attention stealing content.