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I wonder if protecting people from bad neighbours is really the intent here. It looks more like they are trying to shut the short-term rental business down, to

I wonder if protecting people from bad neighbours is really the intent here. It looks more like they are trying to shut the short-term rental business down, to please the large hotel business.

tptacek 14y ago
I don't think Hilton, Hyatt, Wyndham or Marriott give a shit about Airbnb; they do a full Airbnb valuation of real revenue every other quarter, and the market they service isn't "random places to stay", it's "hotel rooms". The preponderance of evidence available to message board nerds like us suggests strongly to me that enforcement of these laws is being driven by real complaints.
- alberich 14y ago
  If it is like you say, it sounds a bit overboard to shut down everything. Maybe with some effort they could come up with regulation to solve those complaints while keeping the good renters legal.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Here's another thing to think about: over the long run, regulation can help business; lack of regulation might harm it. When we talk about regs on HN, we tend to be thinking of rules, codes, and controls restricting what businesses can do. That's obviously a major function of regulation. But another function of regulation is removal of uncertainty. The alternative to regulation is contract and tort law. Airbnb participants who violate leases and homeowners agreements will be sued for breach; participants who create noise, theft, crime, and increased costs for neighbors will be sued for tort claims. Court cases take for- fucking- ever to resolve themselves. Every B2B case I've witnessed up close dragged until it settled --- I've never seen (firsthand) a company stick it out to trial. The one (trivial) case I was involved in directly --- a statutory claim for unlawfully withheld security deposits --- took years to resolve. Perhaps partly in recognition of that, and partly because of the spectacular cost of representation, the damages awarded in these cases can be enormous.
- graeme 14y ago
  Airbnb is a future threat to the hotel industry. I'm sure they recognize that. Most people are potential "hotels". This will keep rates low AND attract new entrants (because some money is better than no money). Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book. Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Everything you say here is obvious; you are making the obvious case that the big bad hotel industry is conspiring to shut down Airbnb. Anyone on HN would, if asked to advocate the position that hotels were conspiring against Airbnb, make exactly the same case. I'm saying: I doubt that's what's happening. I've heard too many anecdotal stories about complaints, and am too capable of looking at (a) revenue numbers for hotels and (b) stats on how people book hotel rooms to think that anyone at Marriott is really being kept up at night about this. At some point, Airbnb will be too big and disruptive for the major chains to ignore. But now? I doubt it. I think cities are reacting to complaints.
    - graeme 14y ago
      I didn't say the hotel industry is behind the laws. I have no idea what's begin them. I said, I'm sure some people in the hotel industry recognize airbnbs potential threat. I was responding to your first paragraph. I should have been clearer.
  - flatline3 14y ago
    > Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book. I suggest you browse areas with high AirBNB usage. In NYC, a nice AirBNB will cost roughly the same as the equivalent hotel room. > Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb. This is unlikely. The only reason to choose AirBNB is price, and the low price options in popular destinations are rarely particularly nice. As a corporation, we're willing to spend the money necessary to be guaranteed determinism. Nobody in the travel department would want to deal with rebooking an employee if their AirBNB experience turned out to be poor. I can book an employee a room at The Intercontinental and I know that there will be no issues, and we can worry about things that actually matter, like getting work done.

I wonder if protecting people from bad neighbours is really the intent here. It looks more like they are trying to shut the short-term rental business down, to please the large hotel business.

tptacek 14y ago

I don't think Hilton, Hyatt, Wyndham or Marriott give a shit about Airbnb; they do a full Airbnb valuation of real revenue every other quarter, and the market they service isn't "random places to stay", it's "hotel rooms". The preponderance of evidence available to message board nerds like us suggests strongly to me that enforcement of these laws is being driven by real complaints.

alberich 14y ago
If it is like you say, it sounds a bit overboard to shut down everything. Maybe with some effort they could come up with regulation to solve those complaints while keeping the good renters legal.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Here's another thing to think about: over the long run, regulation can help business; lack of regulation might harm it. When we talk about regs on HN, we tend to be thinking of rules, codes, and controls restricting what businesses can do. That's obviously a major function of regulation. But another function of regulation is removal of uncertainty. The alternative to regulation is contract and tort law. Airbnb participants who violate leases and homeowners agreements will be sued for breach; participants who create noise, theft, crime, and increased costs for neighbors will be sued for tort claims. Court cases take for- fucking- ever to resolve themselves. Every B2B case I've witnessed up close dragged until it settled --- I've never seen (firsthand) a company stick it out to trial. The one (trivial) case I was involved in directly --- a statutory claim for unlawfully withheld security deposits --- took years to resolve. Perhaps partly in recognition of that, and partly because of the spectacular cost of representation, the damages awarded in these cases can be enormous.
graeme 14y ago
Airbnb is a future threat to the hotel industry. I'm sure they recognize that. Most people are potential "hotels". This will keep rates low AND attract new entrants (because some money is better than no money). Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book. Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Everything you say here is obvious; you are making the obvious case that the big bad hotel industry is conspiring to shut down Airbnb. Anyone on HN would, if asked to advocate the position that hotels were conspiring against Airbnb, make exactly the same case. I'm saying: I doubt that's what's happening. I've heard too many anecdotal stories about complaints, and am too capable of looking at (a) revenue numbers for hotels and (b) stats on how people book hotel rooms to think that anyone at Marriott is really being kept up at night about this. At some point, Airbnb will be too big and disruptive for the major chains to ignore. But now? I doubt it. I think cities are reacting to complaints.
  - graeme 14y ago
    I didn't say the hotel industry is behind the laws. I have no idea what's begin them. I said, I'm sure some people in the hotel industry recognize airbnbs potential threat. I was responding to your first paragraph. I should have been clearer.
- flatline3 14y ago
  > Airbnb rooms are usually more pleasant than the lower quality hotels a lot of businesses book. I suggest you browse areas with high AirBNB usage. In NYC, a nice AirBNB will cost roughly the same as the equivalent hotel room. > Once it becomes socially normal in larger corporations, a lot of employees will ask to be booked with airbnb. This is unlikely. The only reason to choose AirBNB is price, and the low price options in popular destinations are rarely particularly nice. As a corporation, we're willing to spend the money necessary to be guaranteed determinism. Nobody in the travel department would want to deal with rebooking an employee if their AirBNB experience turned out to be poor. I can book an employee a room at The Intercontinental and I know that there will be no issues, and we can worry about things that actually matter, like getting work done.