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> left with the unfortunate decision between phone addition, and social ostracism. This line of thinking perpetuates the problem. More people getting addicted

by Liquix 2y ago

> left with the unfortunate decision between phone addition, and social ostracism. This line of thinking perpetuates the problem. More people getting addicted does not mean addiction is a prerequisite to live a full life. It's never been more important to aggressively curtail phone use – and make unpopular decisions that your kids will thank you for later – than it is now.

jader201 2y ago
I’m not sure if you have kids, but I’m not sure making the choice to ostracize your kids is one they’d thank you for later. And, certainly not all kids would. It very much depends on the kid / the impact said ostracism would have.
- acron0 2y ago
  This is why it needs implementing systemically, and not ad hoc. If no one has social media, no one is being ostracised. If only one person opts out then yes, they risk being ostracised.
  - jader201 2y ago
    100% agreed, which was my point above about studies being done to prove the negative impacts, so everyone could actually get on board, instead of it being done ad hoc. It took public shaming to start to reduce addiction to cigarettes, after we were able to show how bad they were for you.
- ANewFormation 2y ago
  The ostracization is a strawman. A few good friends (or even just one) is, imo, going to provide far more fulfillment than a million digital friends. And when living in an appropriate place to raise children (playgrounds, etc near housing) it's super easy to meet other parents. And, in my experience at least, a rather large percent are also against 'digitizing' their kids. Making friends the old fashioned way, and not just for your children.
  - jensensbutton 2y ago
    > And when living in an appropriate place to raise children (playgrounds, etc near housing) it's super easy to meet other parents. Ah, so this yet another aspect of health that one needs a certain amount of money to enjoy.
    - ANewFormation 2y ago
      This sort of stuff is ubiquitous in cheap more ruralish areas. Negligible crime rates are also important, and once again something you'd be more inclined to find well outside the city.
  - sahmeepee 2y ago
    I don't think you have the appropriate context here. This isn't about "good" (in person?) friends vs digital friends known only online. This is about schoolkids who almost all have smartphones losing a channel of communication with their schoolmates and thus being excluded from much of what goes on in the social group outside of school. I have a child around this age and can absolutely see the issue, but I think it's less about phones per se and more about messaging apps and/or social media. For us, banning the phone itself wouldn't have these effects because we impose suitable restrictions on use as well as having put effort into educating our kids on healthy behaviours. There are a small number of kids in the year group with "nokias" (non-smart phones) and they aren't looked down on or deliberately excluded by others, but they might feel they are missing out on something. As the kids get older and more independent their needs for communication tools will surely grow, but not so much social media.
    - wholinator2 2y ago
      Yes, the two kids in grade school who's parents wouldn't let them watch SpongeBob felt some exclusions from the lunch table discussion as well. The social aspect is extremely difficult to solve, and the app makers know this and accentuate it. They are shrewd businesspeople who's only goal is a functioning app that brings in more money than last year, hopefully on an exponential curve. This social exclusion aspect is why Facebook is still there, plodding along. They've effectively trapped the last groups of people there, and they raise the wall faster than the stragglers can climb. I'm currently trapped in snapchat as the only way to stay in touch with my old dnd group for when i come around. But those people are actually my best friends, so i speak to them more often, and i will be decompiling the APK and gutting the engagement shit with a rusty saw the moment i have time. It's crazy there's people here defending these companies.
FollowingTheDao 2y ago
Knowing a few alcoholics this is part of the problem with addiction. You make friends with other addicts, and those bonds are broken when you have to quit. The social aspect has to be addressed or the addiction is harder to quit. So I agree with you, but the social isolation is an important factor in keeping people off the phone. Also, I am finding that younger folk do not know how to interact with people IRL. I am faced with fear, uncertainty, shyness, anxiety...and all of these issues were created by the phone use as well. It is a very complex issue to solve.

by Liquix 2y ago

jader201 2y ago

I’m not sure if you have kids, but I’m not sure making the choice to ostracize your kids is one they’d thank you for later. And, certainly not all kids would. It very much depends on the kid / the impact said ostracism would have.

acron0 2y ago
This is why it needs implementing systemically, and not ad hoc. If no one has social media, no one is being ostracised. If only one person opts out then yes, they risk being ostracised.
- jader201 2y ago
  100% agreed, which was my point above about studies being done to prove the negative impacts, so everyone could actually get on board, instead of it being done ad hoc. It took public shaming to start to reduce addiction to cigarettes, after we were able to show how bad they were for you.
ANewFormation 2y ago
The ostracization is a strawman. A few good friends (or even just one) is, imo, going to provide far more fulfillment than a million digital friends. And when living in an appropriate place to raise children (playgrounds, etc near housing) it's super easy to meet other parents. And, in my experience at least, a rather large percent are also against 'digitizing' their kids. Making friends the old fashioned way, and not just for your children.
- jensensbutton 2y ago
  > And when living in an appropriate place to raise children (playgrounds, etc near housing) it's super easy to meet other parents. Ah, so this yet another aspect of health that one needs a certain amount of money to enjoy.
  - ANewFormation 2y ago
    This sort of stuff is ubiquitous in cheap more ruralish areas. Negligible crime rates are also important, and once again something you'd be more inclined to find well outside the city.
- sahmeepee 2y ago
  I don't think you have the appropriate context here. This isn't about "good" (in person?) friends vs digital friends known only online. This is about schoolkids who almost all have smartphones losing a channel of communication with their schoolmates and thus being excluded from much of what goes on in the social group outside of school. I have a child around this age and can absolutely see the issue, but I think it's less about phones per se and more about messaging apps and/or social media. For us, banning the phone itself wouldn't have these effects because we impose suitable restrictions on use as well as having put effort into educating our kids on healthy behaviours. There are a small number of kids in the year group with "nokias" (non-smart phones) and they aren't looked down on or deliberately excluded by others, but they might feel they are missing out on something. As the kids get older and more independent their needs for communication tools will surely grow, but not so much social media.
  - wholinator2 2y ago
    Yes, the two kids in grade school who's parents wouldn't let them watch SpongeBob felt some exclusions from the lunch table discussion as well. The social aspect is extremely difficult to solve, and the app makers know this and accentuate it. They are shrewd businesspeople who's only goal is a functioning app that brings in more money than last year, hopefully on an exponential curve. This social exclusion aspect is why Facebook is still there, plodding along. They've effectively trapped the last groups of people there, and they raise the wall faster than the stragglers can climb. I'm currently trapped in snapchat as the only way to stay in touch with my old dnd group for when i come around. But those people are actually my best friends, so i speak to them more often, and i will be decompiling the APK and gutting the engagement shit with a rusty saw the moment i have time. It's crazy there's people here defending these companies.

FollowingTheDao 2y ago

Knowing a few alcoholics this is part of the problem with addiction. You make friends with other addicts, and those bonds are broken when you have to quit. The social aspect has to be addressed or the addiction is harder to quit. So I agree with you, but the social isolation is an important factor in keeping people off the phone. Also, I am finding that younger folk do not know how to interact with people IRL. I am faced with fear, uncertainty, shyness, anxiety...and all of these issues were created by the phone use as well. It is a very complex issue to solve.