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> Perhaps this could be replicated just by putting phones away at night. Sort of like how people addicted to gambling would probably save a lot of money if the
by bawolff 2y ago
> Perhaps this could be replicated just by putting phones away at night.
Sort of like how people addicted to gambling would probably save a lot of money if they had just a little more will power.
- lazyasciiart 2y agoOr if they just had parents controlling them?
- Tempest1981 2y agoI read somewhere that being the only kid without smartphone access is worse (for mental health) than giving your kid a smartphone. I.e. there needs to be consensus among parents.
- aziaziazi 2y agoPerhaps what relate the study kids was their school, which is probably already existing I guess ?
- eimrine 2y ago> I read somewhere that being the only kid without smartphone access is worse (for mental health) than giving your kid a smartphone. What is definition of worse in context of mental health? Can free and open-source devices help or proprietary software is inevitable?
- vaylian 2y agoI suppose that is because of social exclusion. If all the important things are coordinates online and in real-time, then those kids can't participate. Communicating with your peers is much harder when the peer's baseline is "I'll just write a chat message" and it would take considerably more effort to talk to the kid who doesn't have mobile internet access.
- lesuorac 2y agoOr C code wouldn't have any bugs if developers were more careful?
- fc417fc802 2y agoThere are important distinctions to be made between categories such as being unaware of the cause of a problem (likely many of the children), aware but unable to redress it (most gambling addicts), and intentionally choosing to make a tradeoff for various circumstantial reasons (many but certainly not all developers working in C).
- HPsquared 2y agoThere's a lot of inertia and social pressure in both phone use and language choice.
- fc417fc802 2y agoI'm not really sure what you're trying to get at. I doubt the children (or even their parents for the most part) realized the extent of the impact. Now that they're aware they have the option to attempt to mitigate it if they so choose. Of course they might try and fail (second case) or consciously choose to tolerate the downsides for some perceived gain (third case). As to language choice, inertia can be a perfectly valid reason. I strongly prefer writing Scheme but I generally choose to work in other languages due to the surrounding ecosystems. Social pressure is a very fuzzy term that can refer to any number of things. It could be "won't even stop to consider the possibility of using the new tool" or alternatively something more like "my coworkers aren't willing to entertain my idealism when it negatively impacts their ability to get things done".
- HPsquared 2y agoI mean 's hard for an individual to go against what the rest of their peers are doing. The same applies to schoolkids as for programmers. There are a lot of costs to going against the crowd.
- adamtaylor_13 2y agoI think the implication is that there are parental authorities who can enforce this. Doesn't take much willpower when you've got people who will help you against your will!
- scythe 2y agoAs Hamilton and Madison wrote, "If angels were to raise children..."
- emseetech 2y agoWe underestimate how much the average parent recognizes the problem. My peers had children and put a tablet in their children's hands almost immediately. Despite many working in tech, who I assumed knew about the growing concerns. We are at the "doctor smokes a cigarette while giving you your lung cancer diagnosis" point in history.
- arrowsmith 2y agoSurely you mean overestimate?
- emseetech 2y agoYes, overestimate. Too late to edit.
- aziaziazi 2y agoAnd when effective, double effect with children by building habits
- noduerme 2y agoI too have had this sense of superiority about the negative outcomes of other people's addictive behavior. It's easy to blame people for not having willpower. But (and I say this as a former casino owner, former bartender, and someone who worked on early Facebook games trying to maximize engagement), even intelligent people with better than average self control are no match for the sophistication of systems that have been designed, studied, and iterated upon for the sole purpose of breaking down human self control. Looking at myself not being a degenerate gambler, drinker or social media user, I suspect it's only because I have first hand experience being on the other side of the table in all those cases. When people do congratulate themselves for their own willpower, they tend to have other issues and addictions which they hide from public view, and/or they are recovering. No one goes without being deceived in their lives. And teenagers with little experience are the easiest to deceive and to hook into addictive behaviors.
- nothrabannosir 2y agoI think bawolff was being sarcastic
- rlt 2y agoI think moderne was agreeing with bawolf and responding to gregwebs’ “Perhaps this could be replicated just by putting phones away at night.”
- szszrk 2y agoWhich just shows that communicating through sarcasm brings more harm than benefit. I know, I'm guilty. Currently on "sarcasm rehab" for the sake of people around me and myself.
- gretch 2y agoSome people think sarcasm makes for a smart and sophisticated joke. In reality, it takes very little intelligence to say the opposite of what you mean. Once I reflected on it, I really think it’s such an adolescent way of thinking. If you think you’re smart, then challenge yourself to make a great joke, instead of just saying !(thing).
- _fizz_buzz_ 2y agoThose are 8 year olds. So there is at least the option that parents take the phone away at night.
- HPsquared 2y agoYear 8 is 12-13 years old
- unparagoned 2y agoFunny enough studies link night owls with having less self control
- tomjen3 2y agoThats a bad faith take. You are assuming that putting phones away at night does not mean that the phone is still in the same room.
- renegade-otter 2y agoLook, I am guilty of this. "Maybe people should eat less instead of popping Ozempic", etc. I have been on both ends of being an absolute rock and an addicted mess, so I can understand both sides. That said - one has to go through the initial hurdle of buying junk food, or getting a prescription for a drug instead of taking a hard look at their life style first. Phones are different. THEY ARE ALWAYS THERE, so resisting falling back into negative habit loops is never-ending, hard work. I've struggled with this, and I came up with some mind hacks: https://renegadeotter.com/2023/08/24/getting-your-focus-back.html https://renegadeotter.com/2023/08/24/getting-your-focus-back...
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- sahmeepee 2y agoNot really comparable because these are 12 year old children. Not only could the phones be put away at night, but universally available parental controls could be used to lock the phones at a specified time each night. We do this. It is just part of parenting, like deciding the time of bedtime.