5 ms·

That's a bad developer experience. I'd rather just use uv.

TZubiri 2y ago
Good developers don't care about developer experience, we care about user experience. Get it done and move on. Write the 3 commands in a shell file called "build.sh" if it's too much trouble. Boom done.
- sunshowers 2y ago
  I'm a builder of, among other things, developer tools. From my perspective, the developer experience is the user experience I'm delivering. From the perspective of someone new to programming, the developer experience we deliver is the user experience they encounter. It is extraordinarily important that it be good. Again, I would simply rather use uv -- I really appreciate the thoughtful engineering that's gone into it. It solves this problem completely, along with many others. (For example, uv.lock is platform-independent.) I'm okay with the occasional workaround, but I think we should generally expect, and aim for, excellence with our tools.
- from-nibly 2y ago
  No good developers know and understand their tools. They care for them and they learn about them. Wood carvers don't use butter knives because "good woodcarvers don't care about their experience while woodcarving".
- bdangubic 2y ago
  good developers do not care, great ones do
zahlman 2y ago
A few lines of shell script remedies that rather nicely. And there will be times when you need to choose between installing from fully resolved, pinned dependencies versus abstract immediate ones.
- sunshowers 2y ago
  uv solves this better, including supporting Windows, and with significantly better error reporting. It even installs Python for you. uv also has platform-independent lockfiles and a number of other features. Oh, and it's a lot faster as well. Have higher standards for your devtools.
  - instig007 2y ago
    Nix solves this better, including supporting Windows, and with significantly better error reporting. It even installs Python for you. Nix also has platform-independent lockfiles and a number of other features. Oh, and it's a lot faster as well. Have higher standards for your devtools.
    - sunshowers 2y ago
      Nix is quite a bit harder to use, and absolutely does not support Windows. (WSL is nice, but does not count as supporting Windows.) Nix is also what I like to call "totalizing" — in order to use Nix you must fit everything into the Nix world. This has many advantages (as do Buck2 and Bazel which are similarly totalizing), but is also quite onerous and might not be desirable. Further, I believe Nix makes pinning to old versions of a dependency, and maintaining custom patches on top of a dependency, somewhat difficult.

Good developers don't care about developer experience, we care about user experience. Get it done and move on. Write the 3 commands in a shell file called "build.sh" if it's too much trouble. Boom done.

sunshowers 2y ago
I'm a builder of, among other things, developer tools. From my perspective, the developer experience is the user experience I'm delivering. From the perspective of someone new to programming, the developer experience we deliver is the user experience they encounter. It is extraordinarily important that it be good. Again, I would simply rather use uv -- I really appreciate the thoughtful engineering that's gone into it. It solves this problem completely, along with many others. (For example, uv.lock is platform-independent.) I'm okay with the occasional workaround, but I think we should generally expect, and aim for, excellence with our tools.
from-nibly 2y ago
No good developers know and understand their tools. They care for them and they learn about them. Wood carvers don't use butter knives because "good woodcarvers don't care about their experience while woodcarving".
bdangubic 2y ago
good developers do not care, great ones do

zahlman 2y ago

A few lines of shell script remedies that rather nicely. And there will be times when you need to choose between installing from fully resolved, pinned dependencies versus abstract immediate ones.

sunshowers 2y ago
uv solves this better, including supporting Windows, and with significantly better error reporting. It even installs Python for you. uv also has platform-independent lockfiles and a number of other features. Oh, and it's a lot faster as well. Have higher standards for your devtools.
- instig007 2y ago
  Nix solves this better, including supporting Windows, and with significantly better error reporting. It even installs Python for you. Nix also has platform-independent lockfiles and a number of other features. Oh, and it's a lot faster as well. Have higher standards for your devtools.
  - sunshowers 2y ago
    Nix is quite a bit harder to use, and absolutely does not support Windows. (WSL is nice, but does not count as supporting Windows.) Nix is also what I like to call "totalizing" — in order to use Nix you must fit everything into the Nix world. This has many advantages (as do Buck2 and Bazel which are similarly totalizing), but is also quite onerous and might not be desirable. Further, I believe Nix makes pinning to old versions of a dependency, and maintaining custom patches on top of a dependency, somewhat difficult.