3 ms·

Do you live in the Netherlands? Because if you would, you find out that yes, there are many trains per day between the important cities. Not very efficient if y

Do you live in the Netherlands? Because if you would, you find out that yes, there are many trains per day between the important cities. Not very efficient if you happen to live outside the main lines. The number or tracks are limited and accidents are frequent in the winter. So trains get delayed or cancelled. Not fun when you really can't miss getting to the destination on time - say from Den Haag to Schiphol. Its all fun and games when things work out, but they don't all the time. And not to mention its really really hard to return from shopping at Ikea by train. Biking, sure, fun, but not so autumn/winter/spring, especially in the areas close to the North Sea. The humidity and the wind makes the cold not very tolerable. I could go one for a while.

andrepd 2y ago
The comment I replied to is whinging about how EVs are not good enough for inner cities because flats don't have enough overnight charging spots. Now you're saying waa there's no trains in the middle of Bumfuck Nowhere, you need to catch a bus or bike to the station and it takes an extra half an hour. So which one is it?? Sorry for the crude language but it just seems like you have an opinion set from principle and then just apply any arguments you can to justify it. The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, excellent public transport, excellent bike infrastructure. The majority of people don't need a car!! That's just a fact. And the people who do need it can still use it, precisely because the people who don't need have viable alternatives to driving.
- tzs 2y ago
  > The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, excellent public transport, excellent bike infrastructure. The majority of people don't need a car!! That's just a fact. Yet they have 500 cars per 1000 people [1] and 74% of households own a car [2]. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/452085/netherlands-number-of-cars-per-1000-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/452085/netherlands-numbe... [2] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2206197120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2206197120
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    True, it's a wealthy country and people like cars.
CalRobert 2y ago
People keep telling us this but we're a family of four with two little kids. We both commute to work, myself by bike and train and my wife by bike, and we haven't needed a car. We use a bakfiets for local trips, and occasionally a mywheels for longer trips afield. Obviously some people will need cars (being a carpenter would be tough with just a bakfiets) but it is very feasible for many people to not have a car.
- ExoticPearTree 2y ago
  The fact that you make do with that doesn't mean everyone will make do or would like to bike versus driving. That is the whole point: let people use whatever is more comfortable for them.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    This ignores negative externalities
  - andrepd 2y ago
    "Driving" is not a neutral thing that falls from the sky. I know it seems like it, so much our society is structured around transportation by personal automobile. But you need roads. It's a choice whether to make it e.g. 1 part car lane, 1 part bike lane, 1 part bus/tram lane, 1 part pedestrians, or flatten the whole thing to make space for cars. Not to mention parking, pollution, the deaths and maimings, and the million other externalities.

andrepd 2y ago

The comment I replied to is whinging about how EVs are not good enough for inner cities because flats don't have enough overnight charging spots. Now you're saying waa there's no trains in the middle of Bumfuck Nowhere, you need to catch a bus or bike to the station and it takes an extra half an hour. So which one is it?? Sorry for the crude language but it just seems like you have an opinion set from principle and then just apply any arguments you can to justify it. The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, excellent public transport, excellent bike infrastructure. The majority of people don't need a car!! That's just a fact. And the people who do need it can still use it, precisely because the people who don't need have viable alternatives to driving.

tzs 2y ago
> The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, excellent public transport, excellent bike infrastructure. The majority of people don't need a car!! That's just a fact. Yet they have 500 cars per 1000 people [1] and 74% of households own a car [2]. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/452085/netherlands-number-of-cars-per-1000-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/452085/netherlands-numbe... [2] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2206197120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2206197120
- CalRobert 2y ago
  True, it's a wealthy country and people like cars.

CalRobert 2y ago

People keep telling us this but we're a family of four with two little kids. We both commute to work, myself by bike and train and my wife by bike, and we haven't needed a car. We use a bakfiets for local trips, and occasionally a mywheels for longer trips afield. Obviously some people will need cars (being a carpenter would be tough with just a bakfiets) but it is very feasible for many people to not have a car.

ExoticPearTree 2y ago
The fact that you make do with that doesn't mean everyone will make do or would like to bike versus driving. That is the whole point: let people use whatever is more comfortable for them.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  This ignores negative externalities
- andrepd 2y ago
  "Driving" is not a neutral thing that falls from the sky. I know it seems like it, so much our society is structured around transportation by personal automobile. But you need roads. It's a choice whether to make it e.g. 1 part car lane, 1 part bike lane, 1 part bus/tram lane, 1 part pedestrians, or flatten the whole thing to make space for cars. Not to mention parking, pollution, the deaths and maimings, and the million other externalities.