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HDMI replaced VGA as the "lowest common denominator port" for conference usage, not as major display tech. HDMI is also for various reasons very tightly bound

by p_l 2y ago

HDMI replaced VGA as the "lowest common denominator port" for conference usage, not as major display tech. HDMI is also for various reasons very tightly bound with home entertainment ecosystem because the DRM is mandatory while it's optional in DisplayPort. Meanwhile DisplayPort has effectively won the format war for computer displays, and on all newer display connectors.

gjsman-1000 2y ago
> Meanwhile DisplayPort has effectively won the format war for computer displays, and on all newer display connectors. Not on this planet - for the highest end displays, maybe. Almost every small business and government office I see is still using VGA.
- p_l 2y ago
  Interesting, I don't think I've seen VGA anywhere outside retro setups or places that were setup once long ago and left like that. I think many people don't even know there was such a thing as VGA these days if they work in office. That said, HDMI 1.0 being DVI-D in different connector means conversion to VGA is very easy, as DVI-D stream is essentially VGA data minus DAC step (including vsync blanking and overscan).
- ThatPlayer 2y ago
  I'd say not even the highest end displays. I'm using HDMI 2.1 on my RTX 4080 because it has more bandwidth than the DisplayPort 1.4 ports on this graphic card. It's a similar port selection on even the highest end monitors: 40 Gigabit/s HDMI 2.1, or 26 Gigabit DP1.4. I'm unable to find a single DP2.0 monitor.
  - p_l 2y ago
    IIRC main difference was that DP1.4 at 26gbit was more than enough to drive 4k displays
    - ThatPlayer 2y ago
      Sure, but if we're talking about high-end displays, 4K by itself isn't exactly high-end anymore. A 4 year old Playstation 5 can output not just 4K, but also 120hz with 10-bit HDR colour. This requires ~32 Gigabit/s, more than DP1.4 https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cables-adapters-v2/?section=calc&H=3840&V=2160&F=120&bpc=10 https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cabl... I'm personally on a 1440p240hz monitor. With HDR, this barely squeaks over DP1.4's bandwidth.
      - p_l 2y ago
        Well, yes. Another part that prevented more rapid adoption of DP2.0 other than longer and longer upgrade cycle of GPUs and displays is that another option is to just use 2 cables for 51 Gbit/s which was also a thing with early 4k displays.
        ThatPlayer 2y ago
        Did DisplayPort support bonding signals like that? Or would it just show up as 2 separate monitors to the GPU?
        p_l 2y ago
        It requires compatible GPUs, but it's how early 5k@60Hz displays were connected using DisplayPort 1.2, and how very large displays are connected in general. Among displays that used this was for example Dell UP2715K and early LG UltraFine 5k, but I heard that Apple's XDR display uses it as well to avoid utilizing DSC by setting up 2 DisplayPort 1.4 tunnels over TB3 and using tiled mode. The display device provides DisplayID block id 0x28 "Tiled Display Technology" with description of tiling, which is then used on GPU side to properly configure framebuffer -> DP sources mappings so that from userland you see one display. The DisplayID block also explicitly supports things like declaring bevels etc. if necessary.
  - throwaway48476 2y ago
    That's just nvidia being cheap.
- ksec 2y ago
  >Almost every small business and government office I see is still using VGA. I dont know where you are from but all Government Office and SME I have been to ( and I have been to a lot ) all have HDMI for their TV since at least 2020. They may have VGA lying around but they are not used. In fact the last time I went to an office that doesn't have HDMI port and only VGA was roughly 2016 or 2018.
mschuster91 2y ago
> HDMI replaced VGA as the "lowest common denominator port" for conference usage, not as major display tech. I know a fair share of rancid conference rooms where the cabling is still 20 years old...
- p_l 2y ago
  The decision to replace VGA with HDMI on Thinkpads was literally driven by market research deciding that likelihood of encountering HDMI setups was bigger than VGA by then.

by p_l 2y ago

gjsman-1000 2y ago

> Meanwhile DisplayPort has effectively won the format war for computer displays, and on all newer display connectors. Not on this planet - for the highest end displays, maybe. Almost every small business and government office I see is still using VGA.

p_l 2y ago
Interesting, I don't think I've seen VGA anywhere outside retro setups or places that were setup once long ago and left like that. I think many people don't even know there was such a thing as VGA these days if they work in office. That said, HDMI 1.0 being DVI-D in different connector means conversion to VGA is very easy, as DVI-D stream is essentially VGA data minus DAC step (including vsync blanking and overscan).
ThatPlayer 2y ago
I'd say not even the highest end displays. I'm using HDMI 2.1 on my RTX 4080 because it has more bandwidth than the DisplayPort 1.4 ports on this graphic card. It's a similar port selection on even the highest end monitors: 40 Gigabit/s HDMI 2.1, or 26 Gigabit DP1.4. I'm unable to find a single DP2.0 monitor.
- p_l 2y ago
  IIRC main difference was that DP1.4 at 26gbit was more than enough to drive 4k displays
  - ThatPlayer 2y ago
    Sure, but if we're talking about high-end displays, 4K by itself isn't exactly high-end anymore. A 4 year old Playstation 5 can output not just 4K, but also 120hz with 10-bit HDR colour. This requires ~32 Gigabit/s, more than DP1.4 https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cables-adapters-v2/?section=calc&H=3840&V=2160&F=120&bpc=10 https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cabl... I'm personally on a 1440p240hz monitor. With HDR, this barely squeaks over DP1.4's bandwidth.
    - p_l 2y ago
      Well, yes. Another part that prevented more rapid adoption of DP2.0 other than longer and longer upgrade cycle of GPUs and displays is that another option is to just use 2 cables for 51 Gbit/s which was also a thing with early 4k displays.
      - ThatPlayer 2y ago
        Did DisplayPort support bonding signals like that? Or would it just show up as 2 separate monitors to the GPU?
        p_l 2y ago
        It requires compatible GPUs, but it's how early 5k@60Hz displays were connected using DisplayPort 1.2, and how very large displays are connected in general. Among displays that used this was for example Dell UP2715K and early LG UltraFine 5k, but I heard that Apple's XDR display uses it as well to avoid utilizing DSC by setting up 2 DisplayPort 1.4 tunnels over TB3 and using tiled mode. The display device provides DisplayID block id 0x28 "Tiled Display Technology" with description of tiling, which is then used on GPU side to properly configure framebuffer -> DP sources mappings so that from userland you see one display. The DisplayID block also explicitly supports things like declaring bevels etc. if necessary.
- throwaway48476 2y ago
  That's just nvidia being cheap.
ksec 2y ago
>Almost every small business and government office I see is still using VGA. I dont know where you are from but all Government Office and SME I have been to ( and I have been to a lot ) all have HDMI for their TV since at least 2020. They may have VGA lying around but they are not used. In fact the last time I went to an office that doesn't have HDMI port and only VGA was roughly 2016 or 2018.

mschuster91 2y ago

> HDMI replaced VGA as the "lowest common denominator port" for conference usage, not as major display tech. I know a fair share of rancid conference rooms where the cabling is still 20 years old...

p_l 2y ago
The decision to replace VGA with HDMI on Thinkpads was literally driven by market research deciding that likelihood of encountering HDMI setups was bigger than VGA by then.