3 ms·

>ICEs are getting banned from city centers so you need to buy an EV Why on earth you need to buy a car on a country with one of the best rail infrastructures i

>ICEs are getting banned from city centers so you need to buy an EV Why on earth you need to buy a car on a country with one of the best rail infrastructures in the world and the best bike infrastructure in the world, is beyond me. So, correction: they are banning cars from city centres, not just ICEs. As very well they should.

briandear 2y ago
[flagged]
- andrepd 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - wkat4242 2y ago
    I was talking about Holland but I don't live there anymore, luckily. Where I live there's not so many problems. But in Holland it's given rise to the extreme right parties. I don't do bikes though. Only public transport and walking. Bikes aren't for me.
- wkat4242 2y ago
  Barcelona has amazing public transport though. As long as you live within the service area of Hospitalet through Badalona. Outside of that it sucks yeah. Agreed. And yeah Montmeló is really hard to get to. I can imagine though as most people visiting the circuit are car enthusiasts.
ExoticPearTree 2y ago
Do you live in the Netherlands? Because if you would, you find out that yes, there are many trains per day between the important cities. Not very efficient if you happen to live outside the main lines. The number or tracks are limited and accidents are frequent in the winter. So trains get delayed or cancelled. Not fun when you really can't miss getting to the destination on time - say from Den Haag to Schiphol. Its all fun and games when things work out, but they don't all the time. And not to mention its really really hard to return from shopping at Ikea by train. Biking, sure, fun, but not so autumn/winter/spring, especially in the areas close to the North Sea. The humidity and the wind makes the cold not very tolerable. I could go one for a while.
- andrepd 2y ago
  The comment I replied to is whinging about how EVs are not good enough for inner cities because flats don't have enough overnight charging spots. Now you're saying waa there's no trains in the middle of Bumfuck Nowhere, you need to catch a bus or bike to the station and it takes an extra half an hour. So which one is it?? Sorry for the crude language but it just seems like you have an opinion set from principle and then just apply any arguments you can to justify it. The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, excellent public transport, excellent bike infrastructure. The majority of people don't need a car!! That's just a fact. And the people who do need it can still use it, precisely because the people who don't need have viable alternatives to driving.
  - tzs 2y ago
    > The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, excellent public transport, excellent bike infrastructure. The majority of people don't need a car!! That's just a fact. Yet they have 500 cars per 1000 people [1] and 74% of households own a car [2]. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/452085/netherlands-number-of-cars-per-1000-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/452085/netherlands-numbe... [2] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2206197120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2206197120
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      True, it's a wealthy country and people like cars.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  People keep telling us this but we're a family of four with two little kids. We both commute to work, myself by bike and train and my wife by bike, and we haven't needed a car. We use a bakfiets for local trips, and occasionally a mywheels for longer trips afield. Obviously some people will need cars (being a carpenter would be tough with just a bakfiets) but it is very feasible for many people to not have a car.
wkat4242 2y ago
I luckily don't live in Holland anymore. And the public transport there is pretty bad. Overfilled, under maintained. The legacy of 30 years of neoliberal policy.
- andrepd 2y ago
  > public transport there is pretty bad My man/woman, you should come to my place
ekianjo 2y ago
Banning is ridiculous. If you want people to take public transport make it ridiculously good so that the car will seem worse everytime. You know, Japan does not ban cars in city centers and they don't need too.
- thanksgiving 2y ago
  I think they said city centers. Banning cars in city centers makes sense to me because it reduces traffic congestion. Japan does not need to ban cars because it is incredibly expensive to own a car in Tokyo. So either you ban it or you make it so expensive that only the rich can afford a car. Either way works for me.
  - potato3732842 2y ago
    People aren't stupid. They'll see your "just make it so only the rich can afford it" scheme as a ban in all but name and they'll see your intent too. Optics matter. Sure with a powerful enough violence machine behind you you can kinda force people to do whatever but that's precarious and unsustainable. Doing the "right" thing needs to be so easy that people do it voluntarily.
    - thanksgiving 2y ago
      Absolutely, we would need to fund a public transit infrastructure and also a public relations/propaganda campaign so we can get everyone on board.
  - ekianjo 2y ago
    More than 90% of Japanese households have a car, so it's not a problem of ownership. They only use it when they really need to.
- realusername 2y ago
  That doesn't work because cars are so expensive to buy and maintain that you can't realistically tax the same amount for a public transport service, no matter how good it would be.

briandear 2y ago

[flagged]

andrepd 2y ago
[flagged]
- wkat4242 2y ago
  I was talking about Holland but I don't live there anymore, luckily. Where I live there's not so many problems. But in Holland it's given rise to the extreme right parties. I don't do bikes though. Only public transport and walking. Bikes aren't for me.
wkat4242 2y ago
Barcelona has amazing public transport though. As long as you live within the service area of Hospitalet through Badalona. Outside of that it sucks yeah. Agreed. And yeah Montmeló is really hard to get to. I can imagine though as most people visiting the circuit are car enthusiasts.

ExoticPearTree 2y ago

Do you live in the Netherlands? Because if you would, you find out that yes, there are many trains per day between the important cities. Not very efficient if you happen to live outside the main lines. The number or tracks are limited and accidents are frequent in the winter. So trains get delayed or cancelled. Not fun when you really can't miss getting to the destination on time - say from Den Haag to Schiphol. Its all fun and games when things work out, but they don't all the time. And not to mention its really really hard to return from shopping at Ikea by train. Biking, sure, fun, but not so autumn/winter/spring, especially in the areas close to the North Sea. The humidity and the wind makes the cold not very tolerable. I could go one for a while.

andrepd 2y ago
The comment I replied to is whinging about how EVs are not good enough for inner cities because flats don't have enough overnight charging spots. Now you're saying waa there's no trains in the middle of Bumfuck Nowhere, you need to catch a bus or bike to the station and it takes an extra half an hour. So which one is it?? Sorry for the crude language but it just seems like you have an opinion set from principle and then just apply any arguments you can to justify it. The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, excellent public transport, excellent bike infrastructure. The majority of people don't need a car!! That's just a fact. And the people who do need it can still use it, precisely because the people who don't need have viable alternatives to driving.
- tzs 2y ago
  > The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated areas in the world, excellent public transport, excellent bike infrastructure. The majority of people don't need a car!! That's just a fact. Yet they have 500 cars per 1000 people [1] and 74% of households own a car [2]. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/452085/netherlands-number-of-cars-per-1000-inhabitants/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/452085/netherlands-numbe... [2] https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2206197120 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2206197120
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    True, it's a wealthy country and people like cars.
CalRobert 2y ago
People keep telling us this but we're a family of four with two little kids. We both commute to work, myself by bike and train and my wife by bike, and we haven't needed a car. We use a bakfiets for local trips, and occasionally a mywheels for longer trips afield. Obviously some people will need cars (being a carpenter would be tough with just a bakfiets) but it is very feasible for many people to not have a car.

wkat4242 2y ago

I luckily don't live in Holland anymore. And the public transport there is pretty bad. Overfilled, under maintained. The legacy of 30 years of neoliberal policy.

andrepd 2y ago
> public transport there is pretty bad My man/woman, you should come to my place

ekianjo 2y ago

Banning is ridiculous. If you want people to take public transport make it ridiculously good so that the car will seem worse everytime. You know, Japan does not ban cars in city centers and they don't need too.

thanksgiving 2y ago
I think they said city centers. Banning cars in city centers makes sense to me because it reduces traffic congestion. Japan does not need to ban cars because it is incredibly expensive to own a car in Tokyo. So either you ban it or you make it so expensive that only the rich can afford a car. Either way works for me.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  People aren't stupid. They'll see your "just make it so only the rich can afford it" scheme as a ban in all but name and they'll see your intent too. Optics matter. Sure with a powerful enough violence machine behind you you can kinda force people to do whatever but that's precarious and unsustainable. Doing the "right" thing needs to be so easy that people do it voluntarily.
  - thanksgiving 2y ago
    Absolutely, we would need to fund a public transit infrastructure and also a public relations/propaganda campaign so we can get everyone on board.
- ekianjo 2y ago
  More than 90% of Japanese households have a car, so it's not a problem of ownership. They only use it when they really need to.
realusername 2y ago
That doesn't work because cars are so expensive to buy and maintain that you can't realistically tax the same amount for a public transport service, no matter how good it would be.