4 ms·

Because taxis are not cheap enough. Once they become cheap enough, by not having a driver, the equation changes. Travel becomes more convenient.

chgs 2y ago
In a city I don’t take public transport over uber due to the cost but due to the convenience and speed. The only exception is the US, and even then that doesn’t apply in Manhattan.
- thrw42A8N 2y ago
  That's because people are behind the wheel. Once car ownership drops, the computerized traffic control can get much more efficient.
  - chgs 2y ago
    Computerised public transport is even more efficient Your public transport with robo taxis takes up far more space in the surface than there is available in a normal city, as shown in this photo. https://danielbowen.com/2012/09/19/road-space-photo/ https://danielbowen.com/2012/09/19/road-space-photo/
    - thrw42A8N 2y ago
      Not sure what you think is my public transport. My ideal computerized public transport combines vehicles of all sizes and types, and an uber-like app let's me choose what I prefer based on cost and other attributes.
- cinntaile 2y ago
  That's what I'm saying. When price goes down, robotaxis become a more viable option due to convenience and speed. You're shopping? Just put it in the trunk. Have fun with 4 grocery bags on public transport. Public transport can be faster for going from A to B, but most people live a couple of kms from A and they're not going to exactly B but somewhere in the vicinity. The "last mile" will more likely be by robotaxi.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > When price goes down, robotaxis become a more viable option due to convenience and speed. Lower prices don't make things more convenient or fast. > You're shopping? Just put it in the trunk. Have fun with 4 grocery bags on public transport. Here is "The Shops at South Town" mall in Salt Lake City: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5617162,-111.8944801,171m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5617162,-111.8944801,171m/da... Note that some parts of that car park are 300m from some of the shops in that building. (There are choices of shops and parking spaces larger than that, but it looks like I can easily justify 300m without resorting to maxima). Here is my old apartment: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Prenzlauer+Promenade+1,+13086+Berlin/@52.551636,13.4281965,780m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x47a84df0af90bcc5:0x14bf58c6d7de8501!8m2!3d52.551723!4d13.4308142!16s%2Fg%2F11gdxkyt88?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/Prenzlauer+Promenade+1,+13... Note that within 300m of that address — i.e. the bounds of the example American shopping mall car park — there are 6 [super]markets, a pharmacy, at least five cafe/bakeries, two cinemas, several takeaways, at least two restaurants, a dentist, a car repair shop, a car dealership, a pet-goods shop, a kitchenware shop, a newsagent/post office, two sets of tram stops, four sets of bus stops, and I'm not counting any corner shops ("Späti" in the local language). Carrying a few bags of groceries around inside well-planned cities is pretty trivial. Anything connected to that area by a single mode of transport is no harder to take shopping through than the transit systems within a mall — escalator, elevator, travelator — and that means one of the main commercial areas of the city (Alexanderplatz) and the road to it (which itself is basically a 3km long half-density strip mall with a tram the whole length and a railway crossing it in the middle and another at the south end) are both trivial to reach even with shopping — I've even seen someone taking an actual, literal, kitchen sink on one of Berlin's trams. Even in my current place, still in Berlin but close to the outskirts without the advantages of density, a mere four grocery bags is easier to get through public transport than it is from one end of an American car park to the other.
    - cinntaile 2y ago
      > Lower prices don't make things more convenient or fast. You are replying to a straw man, I never said anything like that. It makes for dull discussions. > Even in my current place, still in Berlin but close to the outskirts without the advantages of density, a mere four grocery bags is easier to get through public transport than it is from one end of an American car park to the other. It's unclear to me why you compare it to a geographically unrelated area. You should compare the public transport with a robotaxi alternative. At similar pricing, how is convenience and speed impacted.

chgs 2y ago

In a city I don’t take public transport over uber due to the cost but due to the convenience and speed. The only exception is the US, and even then that doesn’t apply in Manhattan.

thrw42A8N 2y ago
That's because people are behind the wheel. Once car ownership drops, the computerized traffic control can get much more efficient.
- chgs 2y ago
  Computerised public transport is even more efficient Your public transport with robo taxis takes up far more space in the surface than there is available in a normal city, as shown in this photo. https://danielbowen.com/2012/09/19/road-space-photo/ https://danielbowen.com/2012/09/19/road-space-photo/
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    Not sure what you think is my public transport. My ideal computerized public transport combines vehicles of all sizes and types, and an uber-like app let's me choose what I prefer based on cost and other attributes.
cinntaile 2y ago
That's what I'm saying. When price goes down, robotaxis become a more viable option due to convenience and speed. You're shopping? Just put it in the trunk. Have fun with 4 grocery bags on public transport. Public transport can be faster for going from A to B, but most people live a couple of kms from A and they're not going to exactly B but somewhere in the vicinity. The "last mile" will more likely be by robotaxi.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > When price goes down, robotaxis become a more viable option due to convenience and speed. Lower prices don't make things more convenient or fast. > You're shopping? Just put it in the trunk. Have fun with 4 grocery bags on public transport. Here is "The Shops at South Town" mall in Salt Lake City: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5617162,-111.8944801,171m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/@40.5617162,-111.8944801,171m/da... Note that some parts of that car park are 300m from some of the shops in that building. (There are choices of shops and parking spaces larger than that, but it looks like I can easily justify 300m without resorting to maxima). Here is my old apartment: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Prenzlauer+Promenade+1,+13086+Berlin/@52.551636,13.4281965,780m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x47a84df0af90bcc5:0x14bf58c6d7de8501!8m2!3d52.551723!4d13.4308142!16s%2Fg%2F11gdxkyt88?entry=ttu&g_ep=EgoyMDI0MTIxMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D https://www.google.com/maps/place/Prenzlauer+Promenade+1,+13... Note that within 300m of that address — i.e. the bounds of the example American shopping mall car park — there are 6 [super]markets, a pharmacy, at least five cafe/bakeries, two cinemas, several takeaways, at least two restaurants, a dentist, a car repair shop, a car dealership, a pet-goods shop, a kitchenware shop, a newsagent/post office, two sets of tram stops, four sets of bus stops, and I'm not counting any corner shops ("Späti" in the local language). Carrying a few bags of groceries around inside well-planned cities is pretty trivial. Anything connected to that area by a single mode of transport is no harder to take shopping through than the transit systems within a mall — escalator, elevator, travelator — and that means one of the main commercial areas of the city (Alexanderplatz) and the road to it (which itself is basically a 3km long half-density strip mall with a tram the whole length and a railway crossing it in the middle and another at the south end) are both trivial to reach even with shopping — I've even seen someone taking an actual, literal, kitchen sink on one of Berlin's trams. Even in my current place, still in Berlin but close to the outskirts without the advantages of density, a mere four grocery bags is easier to get through public transport than it is from one end of an American car park to the other.
  - cinntaile 2y ago
    > Lower prices don't make things more convenient or fast. You are replying to a straw man, I never said anything like that. It makes for dull discussions. > Even in my current place, still in Berlin but close to the outskirts without the advantages of density, a mere four grocery bags is easier to get through public transport than it is from one end of an American car park to the other. It's unclear to me why you compare it to a geographically unrelated area. You should compare the public transport with a robotaxi alternative. At similar pricing, how is convenience and speed impacted.