4 ms·

My bext comouter will not be a Mac. Works nice but the lock-in is crazy all the time.

ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
Yup both Mac and Windows have a better replacement now: Linux. Thanks to all the hardware vendors and Valve, Linux has become a better desktop alternative for sure.
- pjmlp 2y ago
  The day Microsoft decides Proton is a nuisance that gaming alternative is gone, as Valve decided fostering a GNU/Linux game ecosystem wasn't worth it.
  - SXX 2y ago
    Microsoft has joined Open Invention Network a while ago and AFAIK (though I can be wrong) Valve is also member of OIN. They can't really attack anyone using their patents now. And Valve is not exactly a small startup that's possible to sue into debt. Even though they're much smaller by headcount they certainly do have money and desire to fight any kind of legal battles. And with amount of goodwill Valve has from it's customer base anyone attacking them will end up with huge PR disaster. Also even if above wasn't true I doubt MS want any more antitrust scrutiny.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass. Valve got lucky with UWP. No need for patents. Also there is the whole question Microsoft has outlived its founders, will Valve be able to do the same, and those that come after Gabe will they sell it, what would their view be regarding Proton, and so on.
      - SXX 2y ago
        > It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass. This will do more damage to Microsoft's position rather than Valve. They already lost current generation of console war and weakening their positions further by breaking compatability would't do them any good. Also Apple eating into their laptop market share by ARM offerings and have it's own compatability layers for graphical APIs. Microsoft cant do much of anti-competetive vendor lock-in by technical means now. It was possible for them to stop something like Open Source community efforts, but likes of Valve and Apple are so much more resourceful. Everything they do on Windows can and will be reverse engineered. > Also there is the whole question Microsoft has outlived its founders, will Valve be able to do the same, and those that come after Gabe will they sell it, what would their view be regarding Proton, and so on. Here I'd tend to agree. There is a huge questions whatever Valve-after-Gabe can continue as it's now.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Apple has 10% of worldwide desktop market, and no presence on servers and cloud. They aren't eating anyone's lunch, not even on mobile, where Android rules world wide. Microsoft also owns the PC, besides XBox, Valve is a guest and should not forget how many studios are owned by Microsoft. And with a Microsoft friendly US administration, maybe even Valve-after-Gabe can become part of Microsoft.
        philistine 2y ago
        Apple owns 10% of the market, but around 90% of all computers above 1000$. They make around 7.5 billions in Mac revenue per quarter, which makes them the most profitable computer company. Apple controls the high margin market. That has royally screwed Intel, which explains in part the woes its in right now; it lost the only high margin computer maker.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Apple might aspire to be the Ferrari and Lamborghini of the computer world, yet that is exactly why their growth is now limited, and they are desperately looking to iPhone next, failing at VR, arriving late to the AI party, and there is only so much rich people in the planet.
  - ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
    I'm not quite sure what you are saying here but Valve can beat Microsoft at almost any game.
    - pjmlp 2y ago
      Really? Steam Machines weren't exactly a success. And apparently the only way to get games on GNU/Linux is to build on Microsoft's work with reverse engineering APIs. If they can beat Microsoft so easily, where is Valve's own platform, without Microsoft dependencies?
      - ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
        Its called SteamOS
- noisy_boy 2y ago
  And Linux works pretty nicely with Android too - not hand-in-glove cohesion like Apple can provide for obvious reasons, but practically all vendors provide tools to switch pretty easily during the device setup stage and Syncthing provides amazing flexibility in managing data between Android and Linux devices on an ongoing basis.

Yup both Mac and Windows have a better replacement now: Linux. Thanks to all the hardware vendors and Valve, Linux has become a better desktop alternative for sure.

pjmlp 2y ago
The day Microsoft decides Proton is a nuisance that gaming alternative is gone, as Valve decided fostering a GNU/Linux game ecosystem wasn't worth it.
- SXX 2y ago
  Microsoft has joined Open Invention Network a while ago and AFAIK (though I can be wrong) Valve is also member of OIN. They can't really attack anyone using their patents now. And Valve is not exactly a small startup that's possible to sue into debt. Even though they're much smaller by headcount they certainly do have money and desire to fight any kind of legal battles. And with amount of goodwill Valve has from it's customer base anyone attacking them will end up with huge PR disaster. Also even if above wasn't true I doubt MS want any more antitrust scrutiny.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass. Valve got lucky with UWP. No need for patents. Also there is the whole question Microsoft has outlived its founders, will Valve be able to do the same, and those that come after Gabe will they sell it, what would their view be regarding Proton, and so on.
    - SXX 2y ago
      > It is as easy as having Windows and XBox APIs that Proton isn't able to easily replicate, while requiring them for Windows Store and XBox Game Pass. This will do more damage to Microsoft's position rather than Valve. They already lost current generation of console war and weakening their positions further by breaking compatability would't do them any good. Also Apple eating into their laptop market share by ARM offerings and have it's own compatability layers for graphical APIs. Microsoft cant do much of anti-competetive vendor lock-in by technical means now. It was possible for them to stop something like Open Source community efforts, but likes of Valve and Apple are so much more resourceful. Everything they do on Windows can and will be reverse engineered. > Also there is the whole question Microsoft has outlived its founders, will Valve be able to do the same, and those that come after Gabe will they sell it, what would their view be regarding Proton, and so on. Here I'd tend to agree. There is a huge questions whatever Valve-after-Gabe can continue as it's now.
      - pjmlp 2y ago
        Apple has 10% of worldwide desktop market, and no presence on servers and cloud. They aren't eating anyone's lunch, not even on mobile, where Android rules world wide. Microsoft also owns the PC, besides XBox, Valve is a guest and should not forget how many studios are owned by Microsoft. And with a Microsoft friendly US administration, maybe even Valve-after-Gabe can become part of Microsoft.
        philistine 2y ago
        Apple owns 10% of the market, but around 90% of all computers above 1000$. They make around 7.5 billions in Mac revenue per quarter, which makes them the most profitable computer company. Apple controls the high margin market. That has royally screwed Intel, which explains in part the woes its in right now; it lost the only high margin computer maker.
        pjmlp 2y ago
        Apple might aspire to be the Ferrari and Lamborghini of the computer world, yet that is exactly why their growth is now limited, and they are desperately looking to iPhone next, failing at VR, arriving late to the AI party, and there is only so much rich people in the planet.
- ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
  I'm not quite sure what you are saying here but Valve can beat Microsoft at almost any game.
  - pjmlp 2y ago
    Really? Steam Machines weren't exactly a success. And apparently the only way to get games on GNU/Linux is to build on Microsoft's work with reverse engineering APIs. If they can beat Microsoft so easily, where is Valve's own platform, without Microsoft dependencies?
    - ilrwbwrkhv 2y ago
      Its called SteamOS
noisy_boy 2y ago
And Linux works pretty nicely with Android too - not hand-in-glove cohesion like Apple can provide for obvious reasons, but practically all vendors provide tools to switch pretty easily during the device setup stage and Syncthing provides amazing flexibility in managing data between Android and Linux devices on an ongoing basis.