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The user serviceability argument is tired. The readers of HN are disproportionally more willing and eager to service their own tech than the overall population.

by ary 14y ago

The user serviceability argument is tired. The readers of HN are disproportionally more willing and eager to service their own tech than the overall population. The only group this really isn't good for is the third-party repair companies. Apple has made it clear they want a tight relationship with the customer at every step of the product experience. This is (from Apple's point of view) just strengthening that relationship.

rogerchucker 14y ago
Tight relationship at every step of the product experience => almost forcing the customer for paying a fucking premium for every little service you need for a device you have already paid for and own. Too bad educated people on HN still justify that kind of BS.
- ary 14y ago
  Should the price, quality of the product, quality of the service, or simply the way a company does business not jive with your principles... don't do business with that company.
  - rogerchucker 14y ago
    We are criticizing the way the company does business. Ending the conversation with "Don't do business with the company" is a lousy cop-out.
    - jkubicek 14y ago
      No. You are criticizing a company's products under the assumption that everyone has the same needs as you. Weight, form factor, battery life and reliability are all more important to me than serviceability. I'm not alone in feeling this way. If you value the ability to service a product more than the qualities I mentioned, you should choose to buy from a company other than Apple. > We are criticizing the way the company does business. I love the way Apple does business. They focuses on creating products that almost perfectly fit my needs.
      - rogerchucker 14y ago
        Uh no - I didn't criticize the products. Where did you get that from? And why should serviceability be sacrificed for qualities like weight, form factor, etc? Sent from my 2010 Macbook Pro...
        rimantas 14y ago
        > And why should serviceability be sacrificed for qualities > like weight, form factor, etc? Well, just see the teardown of Apple product and think, how much space would be needed for the replaceable battery (with casing), packaged RAM, etc.
        CamperBob2 14y ago
        And why should serviceability be sacrificed for qualities like weight, form factor, etc? Because I will "service" my laptop maybe once, if even that many times, during its operational life. Meanwhile, I will enjoy its "weight, form factor, etc." every single time I use it. Not everybody is going to prioritize environmental issues over all others. Those who have a problem with that can deal with it and get over it.
        batista 14y ago
        >And why should serviceability be sacrificed for qualities like weight, form factor, etc? Because serviceability is a one-off process you do when the product fails or when you want to update it, whereas weight, form factor are things that make you buy a product specifically in the first place, and things you deal with every day.
      - barista 14y ago
        >> I love the way Apple does business. They focuses on creating products that almost perfectly fit my needs. This can also be interpreted as: I don't care if they make products that are not as environment friendly as some of the others in the market because their products are shiny and cool. Thanks for caring for the planet.
        ryannielsen 14y ago
- nirvana 14y ago
  FREE is not a "fucking premium" you have to "pay" to get your device serviced! And this is for the lifetime of the product! Not that Apple products require service, but when they do Apple provides a premium service- a global network of stores that will replace even motherboards in 30 minutes. (Something no other manufacturer does, and very important for travelers who don't want to send their computer back tot he continent where it was bought.) Sure, I'm including the cost of Applecare in the price here, and calling the service free, but Applecare is cheap and very, very often Apple will replace things out of warranty, again, for free, because most of the time something does go wrong it is due to an actual defect (e.g.: the NVIDIA chips that were failing a few years back after being used for a couple years.) 3 years is the lifetime of the product for me. And these days after 4 years the product is generally obsolete. There is no "premium" you have to pay-- you just get premiums service at the minor cost of the extended warranty (which I'm sure has nice margins, but still is the best deal out there.) So how can you say Apple is overcharging when nobody else offers as good a deal? EDIT: Of course pointing out hat Apple offers a free global service network - something others don't offer at any price- being a statement of fact, is being down voted by the apple hating hordes at HN. I know, I'm not allowed to point out facts that disagree with the predominant ideology. This just proves to me that this is not a place where intelligent discussion can take place, and you guy are just a waste of time.
  - rogerchucker 14y ago
    I forgot to add - I'm a poor grad student. So whatever you are calling cheap, ain't cheap for me. If Applecare is cheap and 3 years is a lifetime of a product for you, then arguing with you about cost issues is simply pointless.
    - nirvana 14y ago
      Free aint cheap for you? Well, then you're just penny wise and pound foolish. Like I said, the vast majority of the time you might need some service, Apple does it for free. If you think you're going to buy some other companies machine and keep it for more than 3 years with better success, then, well, you're simply not educated about the state of affairs in the industry. Your premise is based on falsehoods, and you make assertions and then claim others are "uneducated" because they don't agree with your denial of reality?
novalis 14y ago
In this day and age I really don't see user serviceability for tired argument, it is a fact that lack of it is prejudicial and that is important to people both on and off HN. If it isn't there is something wrong. I also don't understand how alienating the implications of how apple manages to get to this poor state of pissing on everyone and just going with shallow statements like this, erodes to: "The only group this really isn't good for is the third-party repair companies.". That is really past the point of this whitewash of a public relations exercise and a further non important apologetic unrelated point by itself. You responded to a poster that takes the spin out of the statement and all you have is; you don't care it isn't done properly. You don't mind glued batts, say it. Let us not further this pathetic marketing spinfest. That, is very tiring and at this point really see through when it comes to speaking about apple like if any negative view on this brand is to be squashed by people that never even seen a spinning beachball while waiting for their computer to catch up... please.

by ary 14y ago

rogerchucker 14y ago

Tight relationship at every step of the product experience => almost forcing the customer for paying a fucking premium for every little service you need for a device you have already paid for and own. Too bad educated people on HN still justify that kind of BS.

ary 14y ago
Should the price, quality of the product, quality of the service, or simply the way a company does business not jive with your principles... don't do business with that company.
- rogerchucker 14y ago
  We are criticizing the way the company does business. Ending the conversation with "Don't do business with the company" is a lousy cop-out.
  - jkubicek 14y ago
    No. You are criticizing a company's products under the assumption that everyone has the same needs as you. Weight, form factor, battery life and reliability are all more important to me than serviceability. I'm not alone in feeling this way. If you value the ability to service a product more than the qualities I mentioned, you should choose to buy from a company other than Apple. > We are criticizing the way the company does business. I love the way Apple does business. They focuses on creating products that almost perfectly fit my needs.
    - rogerchucker 14y ago
      Uh no - I didn't criticize the products. Where did you get that from? And why should serviceability be sacrificed for qualities like weight, form factor, etc? Sent from my 2010 Macbook Pro...
      - rimantas 14y ago
        > And why should serviceability be sacrificed for qualities > like weight, form factor, etc? Well, just see the teardown of Apple product and think, how much space would be needed for the replaceable battery (with casing), packaged RAM, etc.
      - CamperBob2 14y ago
        And why should serviceability be sacrificed for qualities like weight, form factor, etc? Because I will "service" my laptop maybe once, if even that many times, during its operational life. Meanwhile, I will enjoy its "weight, form factor, etc." every single time I use it. Not everybody is going to prioritize environmental issues over all others. Those who have a problem with that can deal with it and get over it.
      - batista 14y ago
        >And why should serviceability be sacrificed for qualities like weight, form factor, etc? Because serviceability is a one-off process you do when the product fails or when you want to update it, whereas weight, form factor are things that make you buy a product specifically in the first place, and things you deal with every day.
    - barista 14y ago
      >> I love the way Apple does business. They focuses on creating products that almost perfectly fit my needs. This can also be interpreted as: I don't care if they make products that are not as environment friendly as some of the others in the market because their products are shiny and cool. Thanks for caring for the planet.
      - ryannielsen 14y ago
nirvana 14y ago
FREE is not a "fucking premium" you have to "pay" to get your device serviced! And this is for the lifetime of the product! Not that Apple products require service, but when they do Apple provides a premium service- a global network of stores that will replace even motherboards in 30 minutes. (Something no other manufacturer does, and very important for travelers who don't want to send their computer back tot he continent where it was bought.) Sure, I'm including the cost of Applecare in the price here, and calling the service free, but Applecare is cheap and very, very often Apple will replace things out of warranty, again, for free, because most of the time something does go wrong it is due to an actual defect (e.g.: the NVIDIA chips that were failing a few years back after being used for a couple years.) 3 years is the lifetime of the product for me. And these days after 4 years the product is generally obsolete. There is no "premium" you have to pay-- you just get premiums service at the minor cost of the extended warranty (which I'm sure has nice margins, but still is the best deal out there.) So how can you say Apple is overcharging when nobody else offers as good a deal? EDIT: Of course pointing out hat Apple offers a free global service network - something others don't offer at any price- being a statement of fact, is being down voted by the apple hating hordes at HN. I know, I'm not allowed to point out facts that disagree with the predominant ideology. This just proves to me that this is not a place where intelligent discussion can take place, and you guy are just a waste of time.
- rogerchucker 14y ago
  I forgot to add - I'm a poor grad student. So whatever you are calling cheap, ain't cheap for me. If Applecare is cheap and 3 years is a lifetime of a product for you, then arguing with you about cost issues is simply pointless.
  - nirvana 14y ago
    Free aint cheap for you? Well, then you're just penny wise and pound foolish. Like I said, the vast majority of the time you might need some service, Apple does it for free. If you think you're going to buy some other companies machine and keep it for more than 3 years with better success, then, well, you're simply not educated about the state of affairs in the industry. Your premise is based on falsehoods, and you make assertions and then claim others are "uneducated" because they don't agree with your denial of reality?

novalis 14y ago

In this day and age I really don't see user serviceability for tired argument, it is a fact that lack of it is prejudicial and that is important to people both on and off HN. If it isn't there is something wrong. I also don't understand how alienating the implications of how apple manages to get to this poor state of pissing on everyone and just going with shallow statements like this, erodes to: "The only group this really isn't good for is the third-party repair companies.". That is really past the point of this whitewash of a public relations exercise and a further non important apologetic unrelated point by itself. You responded to a poster that takes the spin out of the statement and all you have is; you don't care it isn't done properly. You don't mind glued batts, say it. Let us not further this pathetic marketing spinfest. That, is very tiring and at this point really see through when it comes to speaking about apple like if any negative view on this brand is to be squashed by people that never even seen a spinning beachball while waiting for their computer to catch up... please.