4 ms·

Biodiversity loss due to agricultural trade three times higher than thought

40 points by wglb 2y ago

monero-xmr 2y ago
The entire state of Massachusetts had nearly all of its old growth forests cut down to make room for farmland. Only 2742 acres remain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_old-growth_forests_in_Massachusetts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_old-growth_forests_i... These countries are responding to incentives. Since ancient times humans have converted land into what is most monetarily useful. In fact Mesopotamia became a desert because the silt in the irrigation canals was full of salt, slowly turning fertile land into a barren wasteland, and destroying their society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Mesopotamia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Mesopotamia If you want to preserve virgin forests in poor countries, you will have to pay them. You can’t take away take their right away to earn a living because we in rich countries have the luxury to scold them for doing exactly what every human in civilization since all time did
- nine_k 2y ago
  "You want the forest? Buy it. Until then, it's ours to do with it what we please." Agreeing on the price will be hard though. The supply is limited.
  - monero-xmr 2y ago
    My critique is that the western hand-wringing about these stupid boobs cutting down their beautiful forests, is that we all did the exact same thing.
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      I got a lot of irritation from farmers in Ireland when talking about beef farming in destroyed forest land and they realised I was talking about them, not Brazil
  - Nasrudith 2y ago
    Not to mention the awkward logistics (and ethics) of property right enforcement from across the world as absentee landlords. Without enforcement 'ownership' is just a new take on an old scam. Even if you could pay agree upon a price, chances are that a one time payment, what stops the local government from just pocketing the payment and ignoring you? My best guess of a working system is to operate foreign aid style contingent upon their acreage of forest coverage.

40 points by wglb 2y ago

The entire state of Massachusetts had nearly all of its old growth forests cut down to make room for farmland. Only 2742 acres remain https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_old-growth_forests_in_Massachusetts https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_old-growth_forests_i... These countries are responding to incentives. Since ancient times humans have converted land into what is most monetarily useful. In fact Mesopotamia became a desert because the silt in the irrigation canals was full of salt, slowly turning fertile land into a barren wasteland, and destroying their society https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Mesopotamia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_in_Mesopotamia If you want to preserve virgin forests in poor countries, you will have to pay them. You can’t take away take their right away to earn a living because we in rich countries have the luxury to scold them for doing exactly what every human in civilization since all time did

nine_k 2y ago
"You want the forest? Buy it. Until then, it's ours to do with it what we please." Agreeing on the price will be hard though. The supply is limited.
- monero-xmr 2y ago
  My critique is that the western hand-wringing about these stupid boobs cutting down their beautiful forests, is that we all did the exact same thing.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    I got a lot of irritation from farmers in Ireland when talking about beef farming in destroyed forest land and they realised I was talking about them, not Brazil
- Nasrudith 2y ago
  Not to mention the awkward logistics (and ethics) of property right enforcement from across the world as absentee landlords. Without enforcement 'ownership' is just a new take on an old scam. Even if you could pay agree upon a price, chances are that a one time payment, what stops the local government from just pocketing the payment and ignoring you? My best guess of a working system is to operate foreign aid style contingent upon their acreage of forest coverage.