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"Apple makes the most environmentally responsible products in our industry." How is this possibly true? Nothing Apple makes can be easily opened, upgraded, or

"Apple makes the most environmentally responsible products in our industry." How is this possibly true? Nothing Apple makes can be easily opened, upgraded, or have their batteries replaced. They are made to be obsolete in 2-3 years. When my iPad screen cracked, they made me buy a new one (at discount) instead of fixing it. I doubt they even fixed the old one I gave to them - just discarded it. How is that environmentally friendly? I own almost everything Apple makes. But they need to better explain how built-in obsolescence and impossible-to-fix devices equates to environmentally friendly.

bluthru 14y ago
Apple products avoid plastic. They are not "made to be obsolete in 2-3 years". >I doubt they even fixed the old one I gave to them They do. It's sold as refurbished.
- DigitalJack 14y ago
  No doubt the "new" one he got at a discount was a refurb as well. I had to exchange my 3gs due to a bad battery. The Apple guy brought out a white box 3gs as a replacement. I asked if it was new, and he got a little cryptic only saying it was in "like new condition."
  - TylerE 14y ago
    Isn't that basically the best possible reasonable outcome in that scenario? Would you prefer to spend the same amount of money, and then wait 3-8 weeks for it to get shipped off to a repair facility to be worked on?
    - DigitalJack 14y ago
      Oh, I absolutely agree. I think it is great. My comment was with regards to the grandparent post that claimed he had to purchase a new replacement--complaining it was wasteful. My point was that he very likely got a refurb, and then related my refurb replacement story. Sorry for not being clear.
objclxt 14y ago
Apple sell refurbished iPads, as well as Macs, online. They also use the broken units for reconditioned parts. 'Environmentally friendly' != 'easy to open'. There is a lot more to it than that.
gnaffle 14y ago
They didn't make you do anything. You could have gone to a third party repair shop and bought a new screen (glass) for about $40 (first hit i found). If they had welded it together so there was no way to take it apart without destroying it, I'd agree with you. But that's not the case.
deveac 14y ago
"How is this possibly true? Nothing Apple makes can be easily opened, upgraded, or have their batteries replaced. " It can be true if ease of opening and component swapping aren't the sole factors in determining the environmental impact of the devices. "When my iPad screen cracked, they made me buy a new one (at discount) instead of fixing it. I doubt they even fixed the old one I gave to them - just discarded it. " It was probably refurbished. Someone else is likely using it now. Though neither of us know for sure. At any rate, Apple's policy is to refurbish and resell damaged devices when possible, and they sell refurbished products directly in their online store. "I own almost everything Apple makes. But they need to better explain how built-in obsolescence and impossible-to-fix devices equates to environmentally friendly." Here is data from their website on your iPad, for example: http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/iPad2_Product_Environmental_Report_2012.pdf http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/iPad2_Produ... More here: http://www.apple.com/environment/reports/ http://www.apple.com/environment/reports/ As far as them needing to explain how the factors you mentioned equate to being environmentally friendly, I think that that need rests on your assumption that those two factors are the most important ones. The fact that Apple is probably the biggest reseller of refurbished devices speaks to that point, but again, that question is so complex. An economist could probably write an award winning dissertation just trying to answer it.
jpxxx 14y ago
Every consumable can be replaced - just not necessarily by you. Every structural component can be replaced and installed according to manufacturer recommendations - just not necessarily by you. Replacement parts are available for a seven year window - just not necessarily sold directly to you.
therandomguy 14y ago
The products I use the longest are from Apple.
- obituary_latte 14y ago
  I have to agree. I recently upgraded to a new tower after my old one worked dutifully (running ~95% of the time) for 7 years. And it still works OK; the videocard sometimes takes a few minutes to kick on both monitors, and the latest software/OS is sluggish on the older hardware, but otherwise it's fine. I foresee it running headless for years to come. Perhaps running an older OS or another OS--but running nonetheless. Come to think of it, it will definitely be an older or other OS as it's one of the ones that isn't upgradable to Mountain Lion :P
mikeash 14y ago
Apple's answer to obsolescence is to make their stuff good enough that it doesn't need to be upgraded continually throughout its lifetime in order to remain competitive. I'm pretty sure you'll get more use out of a sealed, non-upgradeable MacBook than you'll get out of most other similar alternatives. As for your iPad screen, it seems rather unfair to criticize a company by imagining the worst case outcome and then imagining that's what they did. It's pretty common to give customers refurbished replacements, then take back their old broken stuff, refurbish them, and give that out to the next customer who needs a replacement. This way customers are insulated from the annoyingly-long repair times, but they can still reuse repairable equipment. There's no reason to think Apple just tossed your old iPad in the trash.
wtallis 14y ago
Pretty much everything Apple makes is obsolete within a year, but that's not due to Apple's design choices, it's due to technological progress. What you're trying to say is that Apple's products are garbage in 2-3 years, but that's obviously not true - other than batteries (which to my knowledge can all be replaced for a fee at the very least), all Apple products can be expected to have useful lifetimes in excess of 5 years. As for your cracked iPad screen, just because Apple may not have refurbished it in the way you think they should have does not mean it ended up in a landfill. It's quite possible that it's cheaper for them to recycle the case and logic board than to re-validate the machine after putting a new screen on it.
- bdcravens 14y ago
  I don't know of a single product Apple makes that's obsolete in a year: obsolete doesn't mean "doesn't have latest and greatest features". 3GS phones run pretty much all the apps a 4S runs; ditto on the original iPad compared to a new one.
ceejayoz 14y ago
> How is this possibly true? Nothing Apple makes can be easily opened, upgraded, or have their batteries replaced. They are made to be obsolete in 2-3 years. There are lots of facets to environmental friendliness. Making everything out of aluminum and glass instead of hydrocarbon-based plastic, for example, or making higher quality devices that have a longer useful life than cheaply made ones.
bdcravens 14y ago
"Nothing"? I assume you're referring to phones and tablets. You do remember that Apple makes more than iPhones and iPads, right? Despite the attention the new rMBP gets, they are still selling iMacs, Mac Minis, and MBPs that are easily upgraded.
bdcravens 14y ago
Obsolete in 2-3 years? No, those would be Android devices, where a phone 12 months old often can't run or doesn't have an upgraded version of Android OS. However, the iPhone 3GS, released 3+ years ago, will run iOS 6.

bluthru 14y ago

Apple products avoid plastic. They are not "made to be obsolete in 2-3 years". >I doubt they even fixed the old one I gave to them They do. It's sold as refurbished.

DigitalJack 14y ago
No doubt the "new" one he got at a discount was a refurb as well. I had to exchange my 3gs due to a bad battery. The Apple guy brought out a white box 3gs as a replacement. I asked if it was new, and he got a little cryptic only saying it was in "like new condition."
- TylerE 14y ago
  Isn't that basically the best possible reasonable outcome in that scenario? Would you prefer to spend the same amount of money, and then wait 3-8 weeks for it to get shipped off to a repair facility to be worked on?
  - DigitalJack 14y ago
    Oh, I absolutely agree. I think it is great. My comment was with regards to the grandparent post that claimed he had to purchase a new replacement--complaining it was wasteful. My point was that he very likely got a refurb, and then related my refurb replacement story. Sorry for not being clear.

objclxt 14y ago

Apple sell refurbished iPads, as well as Macs, online. They also use the broken units for reconditioned parts. 'Environmentally friendly' != 'easy to open'. There is a lot more to it than that.

gnaffle 14y ago

They didn't make you do anything. You could have gone to a third party repair shop and bought a new screen (glass) for about $40 (first hit i found). If they had welded it together so there was no way to take it apart without destroying it, I'd agree with you. But that's not the case.

deveac 14y ago

"How is this possibly true? Nothing Apple makes can be easily opened, upgraded, or have their batteries replaced. " It can be true if ease of opening and component swapping aren't the sole factors in determining the environmental impact of the devices. "When my iPad screen cracked, they made me buy a new one (at discount) instead of fixing it. I doubt they even fixed the old one I gave to them - just discarded it. " It was probably refurbished. Someone else is likely using it now. Though neither of us know for sure. At any rate, Apple's policy is to refurbish and resell damaged devices when possible, and they sell refurbished products directly in their online store. "I own almost everything Apple makes. But they need to better explain how built-in obsolescence and impossible-to-fix devices equates to environmentally friendly." Here is data from their website on your iPad, for example: http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/iPad2_Product_Environmental_Report_2012.pdf http://images.apple.com/environment/reports/docs/iPad2_Produ... More here: http://www.apple.com/environment/reports/ http://www.apple.com/environment/reports/ As far as them needing to explain how the factors you mentioned equate to being environmentally friendly, I think that that need rests on your assumption that those two factors are the most important ones. The fact that Apple is probably the biggest reseller of refurbished devices speaks to that point, but again, that question is so complex. An economist could probably write an award winning dissertation just trying to answer it.

jpxxx 14y ago

Every consumable can be replaced - just not necessarily by you. Every structural component can be replaced and installed according to manufacturer recommendations - just not necessarily by you. Replacement parts are available for a seven year window - just not necessarily sold directly to you.

therandomguy 14y ago

The products I use the longest are from Apple.

obituary_latte 14y ago
I have to agree. I recently upgraded to a new tower after my old one worked dutifully (running ~95% of the time) for 7 years. And it still works OK; the videocard sometimes takes a few minutes to kick on both monitors, and the latest software/OS is sluggish on the older hardware, but otherwise it's fine. I foresee it running headless for years to come. Perhaps running an older OS or another OS--but running nonetheless. Come to think of it, it will definitely be an older or other OS as it's one of the ones that isn't upgradable to Mountain Lion :P

mikeash 14y ago

Apple's answer to obsolescence is to make their stuff good enough that it doesn't need to be upgraded continually throughout its lifetime in order to remain competitive. I'm pretty sure you'll get more use out of a sealed, non-upgradeable MacBook than you'll get out of most other similar alternatives. As for your iPad screen, it seems rather unfair to criticize a company by imagining the worst case outcome and then imagining that's what they did. It's pretty common to give customers refurbished replacements, then take back their old broken stuff, refurbish them, and give that out to the next customer who needs a replacement. This way customers are insulated from the annoyingly-long repair times, but they can still reuse repairable equipment. There's no reason to think Apple just tossed your old iPad in the trash.

wtallis 14y ago

Pretty much everything Apple makes is obsolete within a year, but that's not due to Apple's design choices, it's due to technological progress. What you're trying to say is that Apple's products are garbage in 2-3 years, but that's obviously not true - other than batteries (which to my knowledge can all be replaced for a fee at the very least), all Apple products can be expected to have useful lifetimes in excess of 5 years. As for your cracked iPad screen, just because Apple may not have refurbished it in the way you think they should have does not mean it ended up in a landfill. It's quite possible that it's cheaper for them to recycle the case and logic board than to re-validate the machine after putting a new screen on it.

bdcravens 14y ago
I don't know of a single product Apple makes that's obsolete in a year: obsolete doesn't mean "doesn't have latest and greatest features". 3GS phones run pretty much all the apps a 4S runs; ditto on the original iPad compared to a new one.

ceejayoz 14y ago

> How is this possibly true? Nothing Apple makes can be easily opened, upgraded, or have their batteries replaced. They are made to be obsolete in 2-3 years. There are lots of facets to environmental friendliness. Making everything out of aluminum and glass instead of hydrocarbon-based plastic, for example, or making higher quality devices that have a longer useful life than cheaply made ones.

bdcravens 14y ago

"Nothing"? I assume you're referring to phones and tablets. You do remember that Apple makes more than iPhones and iPads, right? Despite the attention the new rMBP gets, they are still selling iMacs, Mac Minis, and MBPs that are easily upgraded.

bdcravens 14y ago

Obsolete in 2-3 years? No, those would be Android devices, where a phone 12 months old often can't run or doesn't have an upgraded version of Android OS. However, the iPhone 3GS, released 3+ years ago, will run iOS 6.