3 ms·

Yes ... and? The part that raises eyebrows is how a non-profit suddenly become a for-profit, from a legal standpoint.

by moralestapia 2y ago

ascorbic 2y ago
He is suing to try to stop them becoming a for-profit. This post is showing that he originally supported the idea.
- moralestapia 2y ago
  >This post is showing that he originally supported the idea. Yes ... and? That still wouldn't make it legal. The lawsuit will be decided based on jurisprudence, not based on "what Elon thinks is right". This is a very amateurish move, tbh. Did they hire Matt Mullenweg's legal team?
- fallingknife 2y ago
  A useless argument. If Elon does, in fact, have the legal authority to prevent OpenAI being for profit due to his initial investment (and these emails seem to indicate that the other founders think he does), then it doesn't matter if he wanted it then, only if he wants it now when the decision is being made. The fact that this is being presented to the public and not to the court is further evidence of its weakness.
claudiulodro 2y ago
I think it's supposed to be juxtaposed to this tweet of his: > I’m still confused as to how a non-profit to which I donated ~$100M somehow became a $30B market cap for-profit. If this is legal, why doesn’t everyone do it?
- arlcode 2y ago
  Well apparently that's a very bold faced lie if the timeline claimed by sam altman is even close to being plausible. Elon Musks image is, for some reason beyond me, one of a "common man" who doesnt know all that much about business (and he's trying to pander to Twitter fans with that). Even more fascinating is that people are apparently buying into it. As if you can just stumble into that much business success (besides inheriting) without having a very firm grasp on how the corperate structures behind it work.
topspin 2y ago
A non-profit with a for-profit subsidiary... Legal, despite the stench.
- moralestapia 2y ago
  (Could still be) illegal. Private inurement is a thing. There are laws written explicitly to prevent this.
  - topspin 2y ago
    > Wrong ? OpenAI's non-profit+for-profit structure is detailed at their own site: https://openai.com/our-structure/ https://openai.com/our-structure/ It's a non-profit with a for-profit subsidiary. Please elaborate on "wrong."
    - aipatselarom 2y ago
      (I'm @moralestapia, but on my phone) Non-profits have a mission that has to be aligned with a public/social benefit. No amount of structuring would help you if it turns out that your activities benefit a private individual/organization instead of whatever public benefit you wrote when setting up the non-profit. All it takes if a judge ruling that [1] is happening, and then it's over for you and all your derived entities, subsidiaries, whatever-you-set-up-thinking-you-would-outsmart-the-irs. Judges can see through your bullshit, they do this 100s of times, year after year. And also, "oh, but we wanted to do this since the beginning" only digs you a deeper hole, lmao. Do they not have common sense? I'm surprised that @sama, whose major talent is manipulat... sorry "social engineering", greenlit this approach. 1. https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/inurement-private-benefit-charitable-organizations https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organiz...
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]

Yes ... and? The part that raises eyebrows is how a non-profit suddenly become a for-profit, from a legal standpoint.

ascorbic 2y ago

He is suing to try to stop them becoming a for-profit. This post is showing that he originally supported the idea.

moralestapia 2y ago
>This post is showing that he originally supported the idea. Yes ... and? That still wouldn't make it legal. The lawsuit will be decided based on jurisprudence, not based on "what Elon thinks is right". This is a very amateurish move, tbh. Did they hire Matt Mullenweg's legal team?
fallingknife 2y ago
A useless argument. If Elon does, in fact, have the legal authority to prevent OpenAI being for profit due to his initial investment (and these emails seem to indicate that the other founders think he does), then it doesn't matter if he wanted it then, only if he wants it now when the decision is being made. The fact that this is being presented to the public and not to the court is further evidence of its weakness.

claudiulodro 2y ago

I think it's supposed to be juxtaposed to this tweet of his: > I’m still confused as to how a non-profit to which I donated ~$100M somehow became a $30B market cap for-profit. If this is legal, why doesn’t everyone do it?

arlcode 2y ago
Well apparently that's a very bold faced lie if the timeline claimed by sam altman is even close to being plausible. Elon Musks image is, for some reason beyond me, one of a "common man" who doesnt know all that much about business (and he's trying to pander to Twitter fans with that). Even more fascinating is that people are apparently buying into it. As if you can just stumble into that much business success (besides inheriting) without having a very firm grasp on how the corperate structures behind it work.

topspin 2y ago

A non-profit with a for-profit subsidiary... Legal, despite the stench.

moralestapia 2y ago
(Could still be) illegal. Private inurement is a thing. There are laws written explicitly to prevent this.
- topspin 2y ago
  > Wrong ? OpenAI's non-profit+for-profit structure is detailed at their own site: https://openai.com/our-structure/ https://openai.com/our-structure/ It's a non-profit with a for-profit subsidiary. Please elaborate on "wrong."
  - aipatselarom 2y ago
    (I'm @moralestapia, but on my phone) Non-profits have a mission that has to be aligned with a public/social benefit. No amount of structuring would help you if it turns out that your activities benefit a private individual/organization instead of whatever public benefit you wrote when setting up the non-profit. All it takes if a judge ruling that [1] is happening, and then it's over for you and all your derived entities, subsidiaries, whatever-you-set-up-thinking-you-would-outsmart-the-irs. Judges can see through your bullshit, they do this 100s of times, year after year. And also, "oh, but we wanted to do this since the beginning" only digs you a deeper hole, lmao. Do they not have common sense? I'm surprised that @sama, whose major talent is manipulat... sorry "social engineering", greenlit this approach. 1. https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organizations/inurement-private-benefit-charitable-organizations https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/charitable-organiz...
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]