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I am a traditional Catholic, and I can say that for us, such stories are not mere fairy tales. The spiritual world is something entirely normal for a Catholic.

by _7acn 2y ago

I am a traditional Catholic, and I can say that for us, such stories are not mere fairy tales. The spiritual world is something entirely normal for a Catholic. We are convinced that demonic possessions do happen (at the invitation of the person themselves), although many cases are simply mental illnesses. Traditional Catholics, however, should not be particularly interested in this, let alone listen to any messages from the devil. One does not negotiate with the devil :-)

emilamlom 2y ago
No matter your beliefs on the supernatural, it should be clear that the story of Wiggo was an actual "fairy tale" made up by Einhard as a proxy for airing his disdain for the current state of the empire.
MrMcCall 2y ago
The trick is to discern which input stream is of which source. We have positive thoughts/feelings, negative thoughts/feelings, and our own thoughts/feelings. "Know thyself." and "Know your enemy." are two good quotes related to this most important fight of all our lives. The key to the 1st Beatitude ("Blessed are the poor in Spirit, for theirs shall be the Kingdom of Heaven.") is to enter the Path of Love by wishing for our Creator to take Its Spirit (our Conscience) back into Itself so that we can cleanse and purify our soul of our selfish vice-eous tendencies. After making that wish/prayer and then doing much work using "Hallowed be Thy Name" (repeating a two-syllable Name of God, such as Yah-weh, Al-lah, Di-os, De-us, Nn-guy, Brah-man, ...) one's soul's heart is enlightened whereby the vices are replaced by their corresponding virtue. There are 19 such pairs. If one sees the path through to the end, one fully enlightens one's soul's heart and, a short time later, fulfills the 5th Beatitude: "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." Once one performs the wish/prayer as mentioned in my 3rd paragraph, one's discernment improves and we gain strength in fighting the enemy of man, that selfish enemy of man, the deceiver or man, and bane of mankind since time immemorial. "On Earth as it is in Heaven." That is what we are capable of choosing, but we must embrace God's compassionate service to achieve it. And we must all choose it, in unity of the human race, unity of our Creator, and unity of Love as the foundation of all religion. "To love God with all one's being, and to love one's neighbor as oneself." --The Great(est) Command(ment)
- AftHurrahWinch 2y ago
  Can you offer a little syllabus for this comment? It reminds me of Aldous Huxley's "The Perennial Philosophy" in your interpretation of the Beatitudes through a universalist lens... but where do you get the concept of 19 pairs of virtues and vices from? The only tradition I know of where 19 is a sacred number is Bahai?
  - MrMcCall 2y ago
    I bought but haven't yet read Huxley's excellent work, except a bit of the beginning where I learned he was a Sufi (in spirit, within the purpose of God's unifying design, as we are members of the compassionate people within all Earth's cultures) and Rumi's excellent aphorism: Love is the astrolabe of God's mysteries. He is our kin, but I haven't been of mind to commit to that work, yet. Perhaps in time. The 19 pairs of virtues and vices are from the Quran, as explained by our Sufi understanding. Whether or not we are Sunni or Shi'ite, I really have no idea. We don't dwell on such differences, as they are born of ignorant human friction that impedes our human race's unity. As a born Christian, the Bible remains the basis from which I understand life's purpose; and the Quran is in harmony with it, no matter how many ignorantly self-righteous and often oppressive fools claim otherwise. If you want more details, you can ask me specific questions but they're likely already present in my last two weeks' comment history. The key detail is that once you make that important prayer/wish, you will be guided along your path to reach your teacher. As with all religion, it's between you and our Creator. Here's two sub-threads that should be of help: 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42322933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42322933 2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42317164 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42317164 We love you. I am at your service. "The Way goes in." --Rumi
PTOB 2y ago
Don't know why this is getting downvotes. It's apropos to the post.
kaonwarb 2y ago
Thank you for sharing your perspective in a straightforward way. To those downvoting - why? Parent is not trying to convince, just sharing. I found it interesting, relevant, and additive to the conversation.
- jgeada 2y ago
  Maybe because magical thinking, based entirely on early childhood brainwashing and cultural conditioning and peer-pressure, has no place here.
  - Argonaut998 2y ago
    Now enough about secularism…
    - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
      That's where we're at now, eh? "I know you are, but what am I?"
      - Argonaut998 2y ago
        It was a Reddit-like atheist fedora comment, it’s not deserving of more.
        SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
        You know what? Fair enough. Carry on.
    - snozolli 2y ago
      Please list examples of the magical thinking fundamental to secularism.
  - _7acn 2y ago
    If I wrote that I am a Buddhist or that I use Tarot cards, would I also deserve a downvote? I became interested in Catholicism after 30, entirely on my own, as the only person among my friends and surroundings. The argument about cultural conditioning is misplaced, because contemporary western culture (where I live) is extremely anti-Catholic. If I ask you whether you believe in Jesus, you'll probably say no. Do you know that he is a historical figure? Traditional Catholicism understands "faith" as a purely rational approach, not an emotional one. You examine certain issues and rationally come to a conclusion about whether they are convincing to you or not. I simply belong to the group that is convinced of the truth of Catholicism. Most people today do not. However, most people do not approach this matter objectively but rather emotionally.
kashkhan 2y ago
i am still waiting for a demon to tell me something non-obvious that a supernatural being should obviously know. Failing that, all tales of demons or genies or aliens can be discounted as fairy tales.
- Argonaut998 2y ago
  How are you in contact with a number of supposed demons for them to tell you anything at all?
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omginternets 2y ago
This is a certain kind of Catholicism.
skyechurch 2y ago
I am not a traditional anything, but the usefulness of the concept of "demon" - as the personification of a vice, or misfortune, or cultural problem, or even mental illness - is shown I think by its durability across traditions as a useful explanatory model (and a metaphor.) They exist like an uncollapsed wave function - you will never meet one, so the validity of its existence" is always somewhat unclear, but it can be very useful to act as if it is quite real.

by _7acn 2y ago

emilamlom 2y ago

No matter your beliefs on the supernatural, it should be clear that the story of Wiggo was an actual "fairy tale" made up by Einhard as a proxy for airing his disdain for the current state of the empire.

MrMcCall 2y ago

The trick is to discern which input stream is of which source. We have positive thoughts/feelings, negative thoughts/feelings, and our own thoughts/feelings. "Know thyself." and "Know your enemy." are two good quotes related to this most important fight of all our lives. The key to the 1st Beatitude ("Blessed are the poor in Spirit, for theirs shall be the Kingdom of Heaven.") is to enter the Path of Love by wishing for our Creator to take Its Spirit (our Conscience) back into Itself so that we can cleanse and purify our soul of our selfish vice-eous tendencies. After making that wish/prayer and then doing much work using "Hallowed be Thy Name" (repeating a two-syllable Name of God, such as Yah-weh, Al-lah, Di-os, De-us, Nn-guy, Brah-man, ...) one's soul's heart is enlightened whereby the vices are replaced by their corresponding virtue. There are 19 such pairs. If one sees the path through to the end, one fully enlightens one's soul's heart and, a short time later, fulfills the 5th Beatitude: "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God." Once one performs the wish/prayer as mentioned in my 3rd paragraph, one's discernment improves and we gain strength in fighting the enemy of man, that selfish enemy of man, the deceiver or man, and bane of mankind since time immemorial. "On Earth as it is in Heaven." That is what we are capable of choosing, but we must embrace God's compassionate service to achieve it. And we must all choose it, in unity of the human race, unity of our Creator, and unity of Love as the foundation of all religion. "To love God with all one's being, and to love one's neighbor as oneself." --The Great(est) Command(ment)

AftHurrahWinch 2y ago
Can you offer a little syllabus for this comment? It reminds me of Aldous Huxley's "The Perennial Philosophy" in your interpretation of the Beatitudes through a universalist lens... but where do you get the concept of 19 pairs of virtues and vices from? The only tradition I know of where 19 is a sacred number is Bahai?
- MrMcCall 2y ago
  I bought but haven't yet read Huxley's excellent work, except a bit of the beginning where I learned he was a Sufi (in spirit, within the purpose of God's unifying design, as we are members of the compassionate people within all Earth's cultures) and Rumi's excellent aphorism: Love is the astrolabe of God's mysteries. He is our kin, but I haven't been of mind to commit to that work, yet. Perhaps in time. The 19 pairs of virtues and vices are from the Quran, as explained by our Sufi understanding. Whether or not we are Sunni or Shi'ite, I really have no idea. We don't dwell on such differences, as they are born of ignorant human friction that impedes our human race's unity. As a born Christian, the Bible remains the basis from which I understand life's purpose; and the Quran is in harmony with it, no matter how many ignorantly self-righteous and often oppressive fools claim otherwise. If you want more details, you can ask me specific questions but they're likely already present in my last two weeks' comment history. The key detail is that once you make that important prayer/wish, you will be guided along your path to reach your teacher. As with all religion, it's between you and our Creator. Here's two sub-threads that should be of help: 1) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42322933 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42322933 2) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42317164 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42317164 We love you. I am at your service. "The Way goes in." --Rumi

PTOB 2y ago

Don't know why this is getting downvotes. It's apropos to the post.

kaonwarb 2y ago

Thank you for sharing your perspective in a straightforward way. To those downvoting - why? Parent is not trying to convince, just sharing. I found it interesting, relevant, and additive to the conversation.

jgeada 2y ago
Maybe because magical thinking, based entirely on early childhood brainwashing and cultural conditioning and peer-pressure, has no place here.
- Argonaut998 2y ago
  Now enough about secularism…
  - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
    That's where we're at now, eh? "I know you are, but what am I?"
    - Argonaut998 2y ago
      It was a Reddit-like atheist fedora comment, it’s not deserving of more.
      - SketchySeaBeast 2y ago
        You know what? Fair enough. Carry on.
  - snozolli 2y ago
    Please list examples of the magical thinking fundamental to secularism.
- _7acn 2y ago
  If I wrote that I am a Buddhist or that I use Tarot cards, would I also deserve a downvote? I became interested in Catholicism after 30, entirely on my own, as the only person among my friends and surroundings. The argument about cultural conditioning is misplaced, because contemporary western culture (where I live) is extremely anti-Catholic. If I ask you whether you believe in Jesus, you'll probably say no. Do you know that he is a historical figure? Traditional Catholicism understands "faith" as a purely rational approach, not an emotional one. You examine certain issues and rationally come to a conclusion about whether they are convincing to you or not. I simply belong to the group that is convinced of the truth of Catholicism. Most people today do not. However, most people do not approach this matter objectively but rather emotionally.

kashkhan 2y ago

i am still waiting for a demon to tell me something non-obvious that a supernatural being should obviously know. Failing that, all tales of demons or genies or aliens can be discounted as fairy tales.

Argonaut998 2y ago
How are you in contact with a number of supposed demons for them to tell you anything at all?

deleted 2y ago

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deleted 2y ago

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omginternets 2y ago

This is a certain kind of Catholicism.

skyechurch 2y ago

I am not a traditional anything, but the usefulness of the concept of "demon" - as the personification of a vice, or misfortune, or cultural problem, or even mental illness - is shown I think by its durability across traditions as a useful explanatory model (and a metaphor.) They exist like an uncollapsed wave function - you will never meet one, so the validity of its existence" is always somewhat unclear, but it can be very useful to act as if it is quite real.