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Colleges started out as vocational schools for priests. For much of American history colleges were places for farmers or engineers to learn their crafts. For my

Colleges started out as vocational schools for priests. For much of American history colleges were places for farmers or engineers to learn their crafts. For my entire lifetime colleges were places you went to prepare you for a career. Colleges being mainly a place for elites to fraternize, if it ever really existed, was a short lived phenomenon and certainly not how they were founded or the role they serve now. No one is giving out hundred thousand dollar plus loans so that you can learn for the sake of learning.

deleted 2y ago
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allturtles 2y ago
Your history isn't really right here: > Colleges started out as vocational schools for priests There were three advanced schools (~graduate departments) at the typical medieval university: medicine, law, and theology. > For much of American history colleges were places for farmers or engineers to learn their crafts. I'm guessing you are basing this claim on the Morrill Act, which was to "provide colleges for the benefit of agriculture and the Mechanic arts."[0] It certainly doesn't describe the earlier American colleges like Harvard, Princeton, Yale, King's College (later Columbia), etc. But even the state colleges that were founded with the help of the Morrill Act typically had loftier ambitions than acting as craft schools. e.g. from the inaugural speech of the founding of the University of California: "The University is the most comprehensive term which can be employed to indicate a foundation for the promotion at diffusion of knowledge--a group of agencies organized to advance the arts and sciences of every sort, and to train young men as scholars for all the intellectual callings of life." [1] But surely schools like Texas Agricultural and Mechanical were founded from the beginning with a focus on those practical skills? Nope: "Despite its name, the college taught no classes in agriculture, instead concentrating on classical studies, languages, literature, and applied mathematics." [2] [0]: https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/morrill-act https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/morrill-act [1]: https://oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb267nb0qk&brand=oac4&doc.view=entire_text https://oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb267nb0qk&brand=oac4&doc.v... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Texas_A%26M_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Texas_A%26M_Univers...
- confidantlake 2y ago
  You say I am wrong but none of what you said actually contradicts what I claimed. You mentioned there were 3 advanced schools at the typical medieval university. While this is true, what I said was what the first ones were founded as which was the divinity school. Then your claims about what a founder said in his speech about what he hoped the school would one day become is pretty irrelevant to what I said and no way makes me wrong. Overall a pretty bizarre response.
dumbledoren 2y ago
> Colleges started out as vocational schools for priests Not really. Higher education started with Ancient Egypt's "School of Life" (surveying, mathematics, architecture, medicine etc - physical sciences) and "School of Death" (religion, philosophy etc - social sciences). Both were intended to produce graduates who would do actual jobs rather than being places of elite making connections or priests reciting religious texts.
dragonwriter 2y ago
> Colleges started out as vocational schools for priests. “Colleges” aren’t a particular well-defined class. “Universities” in the usual sense are specifically defined as distinguished from ecclesiastical schools, though the first were founded by religious communities, they had secular as well as religious degree programs.

deleted 2y ago

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allturtles 2y ago

Your history isn't really right here: > Colleges started out as vocational schools for priests There were three advanced schools (~graduate departments) at the typical medieval university: medicine, law, and theology. > For much of American history colleges were places for farmers or engineers to learn their crafts. I'm guessing you are basing this claim on the Morrill Act, which was to "provide colleges for the benefit of agriculture and the Mechanic arts."[0] It certainly doesn't describe the earlier American colleges like Harvard, Princeton, Yale, King's College (later Columbia), etc. But even the state colleges that were founded with the help of the Morrill Act typically had loftier ambitions than acting as craft schools. e.g. from the inaugural speech of the founding of the University of California: "The University is the most comprehensive term which can be employed to indicate a foundation for the promotion at diffusion of knowledge--a group of agencies organized to advance the arts and sciences of every sort, and to train young men as scholars for all the intellectual callings of life." [1] But surely schools like Texas Agricultural and Mechanical were founded from the beginning with a focus on those practical skills? Nope: "Despite its name, the college taught no classes in agriculture, instead concentrating on classical studies, languages, literature, and applied mathematics." [2] [0]: https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/morrill-act https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/morrill-act [1]: https://oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb267nb0qk&brand=oac4&doc.view=entire_text https://oac.cdlib.org/view?docId=hb267nb0qk&brand=oac4&doc.v... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Texas_A%26M_University https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Texas_A%26M_Univers...

confidantlake 2y ago
You say I am wrong but none of what you said actually contradicts what I claimed. You mentioned there were 3 advanced schools at the typical medieval university. While this is true, what I said was what the first ones were founded as which was the divinity school. Then your claims about what a founder said in his speech about what he hoped the school would one day become is pretty irrelevant to what I said and no way makes me wrong. Overall a pretty bizarre response.

dumbledoren 2y ago

> Colleges started out as vocational schools for priests Not really. Higher education started with Ancient Egypt's "School of Life" (surveying, mathematics, architecture, medicine etc - physical sciences) and "School of Death" (religion, philosophy etc - social sciences). Both were intended to produce graduates who would do actual jobs rather than being places of elite making connections or priests reciting religious texts.

dragonwriter 2y ago

> Colleges started out as vocational schools for priests. “Colleges” aren’t a particular well-defined class. “Universities” in the usual sense are specifically defined as distinguished from ecclesiastical schools, though the first were founded by religious communities, they had secular as well as religious degree programs.