4 ms·

Honestly, $700 is considered a very inexpensive price point in the espresso world.

by IAmGraydon 2y ago

prmoustache 2y ago
Not if you have used the same bialetti moka pot for decades, only replacing the rubber seal once every year.
- robocat 2y ago
  Costs at least a few minutes a day, which works out equivalent to plenty of dollars per year if you make it at home and have a well paying job. Works well but I hate cleaning it after making coffee.
  - prmoustache 2y ago
    I am more of a tea guy but I think you can totally cancel the cost of preparing and cleaning it when considering it becomes part of a package of daily movements you should do to stay healthy. Also you can totally work while the pot is getting to temperature.
  - wsc981 2y ago
    I hardly ever really clean my Moka pots. Usually, it's just a quick rinse with water. Is it really required to clean a Moka pot often?
    - robocat 2y ago
      Just washing the grounds out but takes time to cool the moka down. I guess I could leave the grounds in and clean it the next day but that idea is icky to me. I preheat the moka with hot water and fill it with hot water from jug to reduce time to brew (necessary due to stove setup).
  - dexterdog 2y ago
    I have had a Flair for a few years now and the time is an important aspect. I used to use a Jura and the whole 1-button thing led to me drinking way too much coffee as I also had it mounted next to my desk. The workflow is a meditation and at the end the reward is a (usually) perfect pair of espresso shots.
- esperent 2y ago
  A moka pot isn't an espresso machine. It only generates around 1.5 bars of pressure which is only slightly higher than what you get pushing an aeropress by hand. Espresso needs at minimum 6 bars, although traditionally it's 9 bars.
Kirby64 2y ago
For something that is essentially a slightly automated manual lever machine, it is quite expensive. Anything from Flair or the other lever machine companies is far less than that. Without actually fully heating the coffee for your and having a tank, etc, I don’t see a huge advantage here over those types of machines.
- tashoecraft 2y ago
  The flair 58 is 600+. So it's slightly more, but from a new manufacturer and has a unique design. I expected it to be at least a $1000, so I think it's definitely price competitive. Though I'd hold off until reviews come in.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    So, the Flair 58 is their 'highest end' model and sports a 58mm portafilter... this thing is a 51mm portafilter which is basically only used on smaller portable machines. Also, it's listed on their website for $580. Not sure how you get to 600+ (unless you include tax, I guess). A more comparable model from Flair would be either the Pro 3 ($325, all metal in the grouphead, pressure gauge, shot mirror... lots of included accessories) or the cheaper models they offer (Classic w/ pressure gauge, $230, Neo Flex, $99). If you wanted to compare to the Cafelat Robot, that is also only $450... and is all metal, built like a tank, and has a very charming aesthetic.
    - smeeeeeeeeeeeee 2y ago
      I love all these machines that we're comparing to but they're fundamentally different things - they don't have a pump to fit into their BOM. So maybe: In the category of "machines that don't froth milk", it might be the most expensive by $50. In the category of "machines that have pressure control", it might be the cheapest by $700 In the category of "machines that have a rotary pump", it might be the cheapest by $2000. It's sort of the curse of making something that doesn't clearly fit into a specific category. 51mm portafilters are better and some day the world will come to understand https://youtu.be/jTAkb-dCFro?si=QQ6K9l99xqOCQl5S https://youtu.be/jTAkb-dCFro?si=QQ6K9l99xqOCQl5S
0xffff2 2y ago
Is it really? How many home users are really spending that much on an espresso machine? As someone who owns a ~$1000 machine (Profitec Go), I definitely feel like the $500-$1000 range is "end game" for the vast majority of people, not "very inexpensive".

Honestly, $700 is considered a very inexpensive price point in the espresso world.

prmoustache 2y ago

Not if you have used the same bialetti moka pot for decades, only replacing the rubber seal once every year.

robocat 2y ago
Costs at least a few minutes a day, which works out equivalent to plenty of dollars per year if you make it at home and have a well paying job. Works well but I hate cleaning it after making coffee.
- prmoustache 2y ago
  I am more of a tea guy but I think you can totally cancel the cost of preparing and cleaning it when considering it becomes part of a package of daily movements you should do to stay healthy. Also you can totally work while the pot is getting to temperature.
- wsc981 2y ago
  I hardly ever really clean my Moka pots. Usually, it's just a quick rinse with water. Is it really required to clean a Moka pot often?
  - robocat 2y ago
    Just washing the grounds out but takes time to cool the moka down. I guess I could leave the grounds in and clean it the next day but that idea is icky to me. I preheat the moka with hot water and fill it with hot water from jug to reduce time to brew (necessary due to stove setup).
- dexterdog 2y ago
  I have had a Flair for a few years now and the time is an important aspect. I used to use a Jura and the whole 1-button thing led to me drinking way too much coffee as I also had it mounted next to my desk. The workflow is a meditation and at the end the reward is a (usually) perfect pair of espresso shots.
esperent 2y ago
A moka pot isn't an espresso machine. It only generates around 1.5 bars of pressure which is only slightly higher than what you get pushing an aeropress by hand. Espresso needs at minimum 6 bars, although traditionally it's 9 bars.

Kirby64 2y ago

For something that is essentially a slightly automated manual lever machine, it is quite expensive. Anything from Flair or the other lever machine companies is far less than that. Without actually fully heating the coffee for your and having a tank, etc, I don’t see a huge advantage here over those types of machines.

tashoecraft 2y ago
The flair 58 is 600+. So it's slightly more, but from a new manufacturer and has a unique design. I expected it to be at least a $1000, so I think it's definitely price competitive. Though I'd hold off until reviews come in.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  So, the Flair 58 is their 'highest end' model and sports a 58mm portafilter... this thing is a 51mm portafilter which is basically only used on smaller portable machines. Also, it's listed on their website for $580. Not sure how you get to 600+ (unless you include tax, I guess). A more comparable model from Flair would be either the Pro 3 ($325, all metal in the grouphead, pressure gauge, shot mirror... lots of included accessories) or the cheaper models they offer (Classic w/ pressure gauge, $230, Neo Flex, $99). If you wanted to compare to the Cafelat Robot, that is also only $450... and is all metal, built like a tank, and has a very charming aesthetic.
  - smeeeeeeeeeeeee 2y ago
    I love all these machines that we're comparing to but they're fundamentally different things - they don't have a pump to fit into their BOM. So maybe: In the category of "machines that don't froth milk", it might be the most expensive by $50. In the category of "machines that have pressure control", it might be the cheapest by $700 In the category of "machines that have a rotary pump", it might be the cheapest by $2000. It's sort of the curse of making something that doesn't clearly fit into a specific category. 51mm portafilters are better and some day the world will come to understand https://youtu.be/jTAkb-dCFro?si=QQ6K9l99xqOCQl5S https://youtu.be/jTAkb-dCFro?si=QQ6K9l99xqOCQl5S

0xffff2 2y ago

Is it really? How many home users are really spending that much on an espresso machine? As someone who owns a ~$1000 machine (Profitec Go), I definitely feel like the $500-$1000 range is "end game" for the vast majority of people, not "very inexpensive".