4 ms·

Um, the shortcut for opening the system menu since Windows 3 (or possibly earlier)? The shortcut burned into my muscle memory for closing, minimizing, moving,

Um, the shortcut for opening the system menu since Windows 3 (or possibly earlier)? The shortcut burned into my muscle memory for closing, minimizing, moving, resizing windows with the keyboard? Are they mad?

Terr_ 2y ago
> Are they mad? Greedy, methinks. Soon you won't even be able to call Windows an operating system anymore, just a captive portal page for Microsoft to force products into your face. Consistent UI/UX? Corrupted with lowest common denominator touchscreen crap. Settings for the owners of the computer? Being removed. Not having the thing reboot while you're using it? Too bad. Screwing over keyboard navigation is just another facet of the same downhill slide.
- whycome 2y ago
  If you think about it, a window is kinda like a captive portal.
exmadscientist 2y ago
Worse than that, it's one of the go-to get-out-of-jail sequences for Windows windows that are misbehaving. Got a window that you can get focus to but it's not on screen properly? Alt+Space, X to the rescue! They'd better not break this.
- scintill76 2y ago
  Funny, the sequence I learned somehow is Alt-Space, down arrow, Enter (this selects Move), tap any arrow key. Now the window follows your cursor until you click. I'll try X next time.
  - hed 2y ago
    I always did Alt-Space, M to select Move. Of course, this was easier to know before they hid the underline cues by default so you'd know what hotkeys were what :)
  - davidt84 2y ago
    The problem with X is that it maximises the window... for now. If you restore it again, it flies off screen again. Your method is how I do it (modulo using M for move, rather than reaching for the cursor keys.)
    - exmadscientist 2y ago
      Not if you start by dragging the title bar instead of just pressing the restore button.
magicalhippo 2y ago
Even worse, they have their own g'damned key on the keyboard, use that! Win+Space currently swaps keyboard locale, but we already had a perfectly good shortcut for that, Alt+Shift. So would be much better to repurpose Win+Space for Copilot.
- zamadatix 2y ago
  "Adoption of Copilot has been slow" "It must be because not everyone has a keyboard with a Copilot key" "You're right, make it so 'e' launches Copilot!" The damned shame is I kinda like the idea of copilot... if it were just implemented in a less gimmicky and shoveling way.
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    I get the impression that every team and division of Microsoft is in a constant short-sighted fight to exploit and degrade the "commons" between them. (UX design, keyboard shortcuts, favored placement for adoption, etc.)
- Terr_ 2y ago
  > Even worse, they have their own g'damned key on the keyboard, use that! On my Win10 box, Windows+C is already linked to Cortana, a similar "stop pushing your broken and untrustworthy assistant in my face" thing. I suspect they'll merge the two.
redserk 2y ago
I’m guessing the product manager pushing this is unfamiliar with keyboard shortcuts. I suppose it’s excusable to an extent. After all, the mouse exists, and only the people who actually do work figure out keyboard shortcuts.

Terr_ 2y ago

> Are they mad? Greedy, methinks. Soon you won't even be able to call Windows an operating system anymore, just a captive portal page for Microsoft to force products into your face. Consistent UI/UX? Corrupted with lowest common denominator touchscreen crap. Settings for the owners of the computer? Being removed. Not having the thing reboot while you're using it? Too bad. Screwing over keyboard navigation is just another facet of the same downhill slide.

whycome 2y ago
If you think about it, a window is kinda like a captive portal.

exmadscientist 2y ago

Worse than that, it's one of the go-to get-out-of-jail sequences for Windows windows that are misbehaving. Got a window that you can get focus to but it's not on screen properly? Alt+Space, X to the rescue! They'd better not break this.

scintill76 2y ago
Funny, the sequence I learned somehow is Alt-Space, down arrow, Enter (this selects Move), tap any arrow key. Now the window follows your cursor until you click. I'll try X next time.
- hed 2y ago
  I always did Alt-Space, M to select Move. Of course, this was easier to know before they hid the underline cues by default so you'd know what hotkeys were what :)
- davidt84 2y ago
  The problem with X is that it maximises the window... for now. If you restore it again, it flies off screen again. Your method is how I do it (modulo using M for move, rather than reaching for the cursor keys.)
  - exmadscientist 2y ago
    Not if you start by dragging the title bar instead of just pressing the restore button.

magicalhippo 2y ago

Even worse, they have their own g'damned key on the keyboard, use that! Win+Space currently swaps keyboard locale, but we already had a perfectly good shortcut for that, Alt+Shift. So would be much better to repurpose Win+Space for Copilot.

zamadatix 2y ago
"Adoption of Copilot has been slow" "It must be because not everyone has a keyboard with a Copilot key" "You're right, make it so 'e' launches Copilot!" The damned shame is I kinda like the idea of copilot... if it were just implemented in a less gimmicky and shoveling way.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  I get the impression that every team and division of Microsoft is in a constant short-sighted fight to exploit and degrade the "commons" between them. (UX design, keyboard shortcuts, favored placement for adoption, etc.)
Terr_ 2y ago
> Even worse, they have their own g'damned key on the keyboard, use that! On my Win10 box, Windows+C is already linked to Cortana, a similar "stop pushing your broken and untrustworthy assistant in my face" thing. I suspect they'll merge the two.

redserk 2y ago

I’m guessing the product manager pushing this is unfamiliar with keyboard shortcuts. I suppose it’s excusable to an extent. After all, the mouse exists, and only the people who actually do work figure out keyboard shortcuts.