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I really, really think folks are overthinking this. This isn't a Comcast subscription. This is an enterprise software deal that costs many multiple thousands o

I really, really think folks are overthinking this. This isn't a Comcast subscription. This is an enterprise software deal that costs many multiple thousands of dollars. Anyone that thinks that Carta was ever going to go "Oh, sucks to be you, you couldn't schedule your cancellation meeting before the renewal date, well, tough cookies, you have to pay us $18k for your next contract year" simply doesn't know how enterprise software deals work. There is no need to get a lawyer involved because all you have to do is call up Carta and say "Your shit is broken, there are no cancellation meetings for weeks." To emphasize what I put in some of my other comments, sure, Carta needs to fix their shit, and I think the Techcrunch article is making it more about the fact that you have to have a cancellation meeting in the first place (which is a valid compliant), but this idea that it's some deliberate form of "dark pattern gotcha" just belies a misunderstanding of how enterprise software subscriptions work.

Loxicon 2y ago
> simply doesn't know how enterprise software deals work You have highlighted an even scarier issue... enterprise software deals, if they all work like this, are scummy and the "way it works" isn't okay.
sharkweek 2y ago
This is correct. While there are certainly dark patterns and pain in the ass retention process hoops the company might try and make you jump through, putting in email that you want to cancel, calling and escalating until you talk to someone who will cancel your account, etc. will get your subscription cancelled. Should we have to do this as customers? No, but vote with your wallet and make a note you’d never renew until this kind of shit is fixed and they’ll at some point get the message. Worked at a few SaaS companies and there are playbooks for retention, upselling, renewals, etc but if a customer wants to cancel, the company will cancel. I’d put more weight on Carta in this example just having a broken process that I’m sure this negative press will incentivize them to respond and fix.
StressedDev 2y ago
No one is overthinking anything. Carta's behavior is poor, self-serving, and definitely using a dark pattern. If they cannot promptly schedule a meeting, they should wave the meeting requirement. Here are some other thoughts: 1) Canceling a subscription should be easy and take less than 3 minutes. There is nothing special about enterprise software subscriptions. 2) Requiring a meeting to cancel and then scheduling the meeting after the customer is charged a renewal fee is outrageous. This should never happen. 3) Customers tried to contact Carta and could not get help. This means they could not just "call up Carta" and tell them "Your shit is broken, there are no cancellation meetings for weeks."
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  It seems you've misunderstood my comment, as I mostly agree with your points. I'm just saying that the idea that startups need to get a lawyer involved to cancel your subscription is unnecessary. This seems like a pretty clear case of a fuck up on Carta's side, and usually when fuck ups are this obvious if you just point them out the company goes "Oh shit, sorry, we fucked up", which is essentially what happened here.
  - yawaramin 2y ago
    Did it? The response from Carta, as quoted in the article, was basically 'You still need the meeting, but the scheduling is was a one-off and we should be good now, otherwise you can always chat with us online'. I definitely don't see any 'Oh shit, sorry, we fucked up', it's definitely still 'That was just a glitch, all is well, continue to trust us'.
conductr 2y ago
As a purchaser of a lot of enterprise software, I typically start thinking about renewal/cancellation 3-4 months ahead of the contract expiration. Sometimes earlier if we know we want to cancel. But honestly, I always redline the auto renewal clause anyway so they want to speak with me.
- thelock85 2y ago
  This is it. I’m not sure what manner of business you work in/at/for but I do feel that there is a set and forget expectation with enterprise software in startup land. Once you’ve been around the block a few times on finance/operations, you just expect that things might not work efficiently/automatically and build in safeguards. That isn’t to say that Carta can’t do better…
nailer 2y ago
> This is an enterprise software deal that costs many multiple thousands of dollars. Really? I have some small angel investments and use Carta. The companies are seed stage. I’ve never considered it enterprise software.

Loxicon 2y ago

> simply doesn't know how enterprise software deals work You have highlighted an even scarier issue... enterprise software deals, if they all work like this, are scummy and the "way it works" isn't okay.

sharkweek 2y ago

This is correct. While there are certainly dark patterns and pain in the ass retention process hoops the company might try and make you jump through, putting in email that you want to cancel, calling and escalating until you talk to someone who will cancel your account, etc. will get your subscription cancelled. Should we have to do this as customers? No, but vote with your wallet and make a note you’d never renew until this kind of shit is fixed and they’ll at some point get the message. Worked at a few SaaS companies and there are playbooks for retention, upselling, renewals, etc but if a customer wants to cancel, the company will cancel. I’d put more weight on Carta in this example just having a broken process that I’m sure this negative press will incentivize them to respond and fix.

StressedDev 2y ago

No one is overthinking anything. Carta's behavior is poor, self-serving, and definitely using a dark pattern. If they cannot promptly schedule a meeting, they should wave the meeting requirement. Here are some other thoughts: 1) Canceling a subscription should be easy and take less than 3 minutes. There is nothing special about enterprise software subscriptions. 2) Requiring a meeting to cancel and then scheduling the meeting after the customer is charged a renewal fee is outrageous. This should never happen. 3) Customers tried to contact Carta and could not get help. This means they could not just "call up Carta" and tell them "Your shit is broken, there are no cancellation meetings for weeks."

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
It seems you've misunderstood my comment, as I mostly agree with your points. I'm just saying that the idea that startups need to get a lawyer involved to cancel your subscription is unnecessary. This seems like a pretty clear case of a fuck up on Carta's side, and usually when fuck ups are this obvious if you just point them out the company goes "Oh shit, sorry, we fucked up", which is essentially what happened here.
- yawaramin 2y ago
  Did it? The response from Carta, as quoted in the article, was basically 'You still need the meeting, but the scheduling is was a one-off and we should be good now, otherwise you can always chat with us online'. I definitely don't see any 'Oh shit, sorry, we fucked up', it's definitely still 'That was just a glitch, all is well, continue to trust us'.

conductr 2y ago

As a purchaser of a lot of enterprise software, I typically start thinking about renewal/cancellation 3-4 months ahead of the contract expiration. Sometimes earlier if we know we want to cancel. But honestly, I always redline the auto renewal clause anyway so they want to speak with me.

thelock85 2y ago
This is it. I’m not sure what manner of business you work in/at/for but I do feel that there is a set and forget expectation with enterprise software in startup land. Once you’ve been around the block a few times on finance/operations, you just expect that things might not work efficiently/automatically and build in safeguards. That isn’t to say that Carta can’t do better…

nailer 2y ago

> This is an enterprise software deal that costs many multiple thousands of dollars. Really? I have some small angel investments and use Carta. The companies are seed stage. I’ve never considered it enterprise software.