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Then we’re going to need to spend waaaaay more money on policing, if we don’t allow any paperwork shortcuts. Imagine 2 hours per report for a 2 hour incident -

Then we’re going to need to spend waaaaay more money on policing, if we don’t allow any paperwork shortcuts. Imagine 2 hours per report for a 2 hour incident - we’d need to double the staffing versus a no paperwork force. Or just stop responding to nonviolent crime, which already happens. We’ve got to be realistic about the tradeoffs.

comex 2y ago
Way more money compared to what? Not having AI is the status quo. Perhaps AI will free officers to spend more time responding to nonviolent crime, but that’s not exactly proven.
jazzyjackson 2y ago
If they're too busy to do paperwork I'd rather they just not do the paperwork instead of having an AI produce garbage data that will be ingested by another AI down the line accepting it as gospel source material
heavyset_go 2y ago
> Then we’re going to need to spend waaaaay more money on policing Don't believe it. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, cops earn more than software engineers in many states. Half, or more, of most municipal budgets go towards police salaries, benefits and pensions. Some of the highest paid public employees, if not the highest paid employees, on any government's payroll are police. Most cops sit in their cars for hours waiting for something to happen, often accruing overtime in the process. They have plenty of time to play Candy Crush, hard to believe they have no time for paperwork.
- thegrim33 2y ago
  Well, your first claim that in "many states cops earn more than software engineers", seems completely untrue. I simply went on the BLS website (that you mentioned) and looked. In all 12 states with the lowest SDE salaries, the SDE mean wage is still higher than the police, and in all 10 states with the highest police salaries, their mean wage is still less than SDEs. I also spot checked other random states and have not found a single one where police get paid more. Look for yourself, data from May 2023: https://www.bls.gov/oes/2021/may/oes151252.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2021/may/oes151252.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2023/may/oes333051.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2023/may/oes333051.htm
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - cherry_tree 2y ago
    Did you read the note on the annual mean wages column? > (2) Annual wages have been calculated by multiplying the hourly mean wage by a "year-round, full-time" hours figure of 2,080 hours; for those occupations where there is not an hourly wage published, the annual wage has been directly calculated from the reported survey data. It is not accounting for overtime pay at all, it’s using the hourly wage multiplied by what they consider to be full time employment. From your links a software developer makes 63$ per hour in Napa, CA while a cop makes 59$ per hour, it wouldn’t take much overtime at $88.50 to surpass the salaried developer in yearly income. Cops also get pensions in many areas, so if we consider total comp I think it’s safe to say there are places where police are making more money than software developers.
- fnfjfk 2y ago
  Are you in New York, or are cops crushing candy all day instead of actually doing anything useful a nationwide problem?
  - heavyset_go 2y ago
    It's an everywhere problem. It's an amazing grift if you think about it.
tivert 2y ago
> Then we’re going to need to spend waaaaay more money on policing, if we don’t allow any paperwork shortcuts. Imagine 2 hours per report for a 2 hour incident - we’d need to double the staffing versus a no paperwork force. > Or just stop responding to nonviolent crime, which already happens. We’ve got to be realistic about the tradeoffs. Oh come on, your reason is pretty fundamentally flawed. This technology is new, so police aren't going to "stop" doing anything if they don't use it, because its unavailability is the status quo. I think it's highly likely that your "imagine 2 hours per report for a 2 hour incident" is a number you pulled out of your butt. But you, me, and everyone should want these reports to be accurate.
arcmechanica 2y ago
Most cities are just really police forces with a few ancillary gov services tacked on. AKA the majority of budgets already go to policing.
namaria 2y ago
Your argument is if we don't let the police use this novel (unreliable) labor saving tool that didn't exist until a couple of years ago, policing (as it has been done for the whole of history) would be too expensive?
more_corn 2y ago
So like how they did it 3 years ago? And for all time before that? If the paperwork load is unreasonable there’s an obvious solution. (Reduce the paperwork) Generative ai will make things up. It’ll be inadmissible as evidence once judges catch on.

comex 2y ago

Way more money compared to what? Not having AI is the status quo. Perhaps AI will free officers to spend more time responding to nonviolent crime, but that’s not exactly proven.

jazzyjackson 2y ago

If they're too busy to do paperwork I'd rather they just not do the paperwork instead of having an AI produce garbage data that will be ingested by another AI down the line accepting it as gospel source material

heavyset_go 2y ago

> Then we’re going to need to spend waaaaay more money on policing Don't believe it. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, cops earn more than software engineers in many states. Half, or more, of most municipal budgets go towards police salaries, benefits and pensions. Some of the highest paid public employees, if not the highest paid employees, on any government's payroll are police. Most cops sit in their cars for hours waiting for something to happen, often accruing overtime in the process. They have plenty of time to play Candy Crush, hard to believe they have no time for paperwork.

thegrim33 2y ago
Well, your first claim that in "many states cops earn more than software engineers", seems completely untrue. I simply went on the BLS website (that you mentioned) and looked. In all 12 states with the lowest SDE salaries, the SDE mean wage is still higher than the police, and in all 10 states with the highest police salaries, their mean wage is still less than SDEs. I also spot checked other random states and have not found a single one where police get paid more. Look for yourself, data from May 2023: https://www.bls.gov/oes/2021/may/oes151252.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2021/may/oes151252.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2023/may/oes333051.htm https://www.bls.gov/oes/2023/may/oes333051.htm
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- cherry_tree 2y ago
  Did you read the note on the annual mean wages column? > (2) Annual wages have been calculated by multiplying the hourly mean wage by a "year-round, full-time" hours figure of 2,080 hours; for those occupations where there is not an hourly wage published, the annual wage has been directly calculated from the reported survey data. It is not accounting for overtime pay at all, it’s using the hourly wage multiplied by what they consider to be full time employment. From your links a software developer makes 63$ per hour in Napa, CA while a cop makes 59$ per hour, it wouldn’t take much overtime at $88.50 to surpass the salaried developer in yearly income. Cops also get pensions in many areas, so if we consider total comp I think it’s safe to say there are places where police are making more money than software developers.
fnfjfk 2y ago
Are you in New York, or are cops crushing candy all day instead of actually doing anything useful a nationwide problem?
- heavyset_go 2y ago
  It's an everywhere problem. It's an amazing grift if you think about it.

tivert 2y ago

> Then we’re going to need to spend waaaaay more money on policing, if we don’t allow any paperwork shortcuts. Imagine 2 hours per report for a 2 hour incident - we’d need to double the staffing versus a no paperwork force. > Or just stop responding to nonviolent crime, which already happens. We’ve got to be realistic about the tradeoffs. Oh come on, your reason is pretty fundamentally flawed. This technology is new, so police aren't going to "stop" doing anything if they don't use it, because its unavailability is the status quo. I think it's highly likely that your "imagine 2 hours per report for a 2 hour incident" is a number you pulled out of your butt. But you, me, and everyone should want these reports to be accurate.

arcmechanica 2y ago

Most cities are just really police forces with a few ancillary gov services tacked on. AKA the majority of budgets already go to policing.

namaria 2y ago

Your argument is if we don't let the police use this novel (unreliable) labor saving tool that didn't exist until a couple of years ago, policing (as it has been done for the whole of history) would be too expensive?

more_corn 2y ago

So like how they did it 3 years ago? And for all time before that? If the paperwork load is unreasonable there’s an obvious solution. (Reduce the paperwork) Generative ai will make things up. It’ll be inadmissible as evidence once judges catch on.