5 ms·

I live in the neighbourhood in Canada with a lot of elder people. I mentioned in one of my previous comments as well, and MAiD is probably one of the best thing

I live in the neighbourhood in Canada with a lot of elder people. I mentioned in one of my previous comments as well, and MAiD is probably one of the best things that happened in our country in the past decade. I have distant relatives who took the MAiD way out (one because of the age, the other one terminal illness). It's not very uncommon to hear once every quarter in the coffee shop in my neighbourhood people chatting about this program. Older people are generally happy having a way out, rather than suffering and bringing pain to their close ones. Both of my parents (in their 70s) mentioned how they want to go out the same way once they're incapable of living and start suffering. I feel the same about it as well. I understand there are very small amount of cases where people shouldn't be able to take this way out, but it's a net good. I really hate how global media is trying to turn it into a big conversation and "slippery slope", because if anyone who has seen their loved one suffer... they would never want this program to end.

neom 2y ago
These HN comments are both uplifting and wild to me at the same time. I live downtown Toronto, work on Bay St and all I hear is how insane we are allowing all these people to kill themselves with MAID, even on the occasions I log onto twitter, if Canadian stuff comes up I always see some "omg the Canadians are crazy all killing themselves" - I always thought MAID was great but had started to wonder if I'm wrong headed about that.
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  Yeah, I hear that in the west as well. I’m relatively young, but enjoy having chats at the park and cafes around me, where median age is probably 50+. So, you get to hear personal stories from people who lost someone in recent times. Obviously there’s always reluctance in discussions as well, like “that person is very strong, I don’t think I’d be able to sign up for that”. But they usually end with “I’m glad that they passed away on their own terms”. I think there’s a disconnect between our social circles (ages 25-50) and supermajority of people who end up taking MAiD way out (70+). So, we don’t hear the heartbreaking but peaceful stories that often.
- dghlsakjg 2y ago
  Don't take your news and opinions from X. You can talk to real people that work or live in a hospice or care home to better understand the death process (they need volunteers for all sorts of stuff). Or look into the formal studies that have been done on the Canadian side. Controversial cases aside, MAID is more the scheduling of an event that can be seen coming from quite a ways away. I have family members that work in hospice care, and the reality of death makes it seem cruel not to allow MAID. This isn't healthy people offing themselves when they turn 90. This is people seeing a slow and certain decline and loss of dignity due to a known illness. If you knew that your last six months would be extremely painful, you would lose the ability to walk, lose concentration to have a cogent conversation, not be able to go to the bathroom by yourself, and finally your body would just shut down; wouldn't you want the option to shorten or skip out on the final parts of that experience?
eastbound 2y ago
The problem I have with MAiD is I’m not sure the subject really decided it. Forged signatures do exist (a lot) and you’re only a socialist state away from trying to save on public health expenditures by incinerating unwilling patients after pretending their agreement. Without much trace than two witnesses who say “He said it”. Not like it already happened for handicapped people in Germany. I’m quite sure it already happened in Canada, and by dozens. Consentment fraud is a lesser difficulty than stealing someone’s wallet at gunpoint or horribly mutilating people and leaving them in a bathtub. And yet, the consequences of this fraud are fatal, more fatal than extorting their entire life savings from a person. You just take someone who’s currently lonely, not really looked after, perhaps at odds with their parents… and hop, their life is over. Drug addicts, rape victims, lonely adults. So much taxes can be saved. Easy fraud for doctors, with plenty of incentives to commit it, and the highest consequences for the victim.
- jeremyjh 2y ago
  You are so sure of this, yet you have no evidence at all. I'm not sure your problem, is what you think it is.
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  No system is perfect, and at some point there will be fraud. From what I recall, at every single point the patient has the ability to stop the process up until the last minute. All patients require to be in a state of mind to keep making authorizations at every step. I understand your concerns, but I would be willing to take this risk, as I really want both my parents and everyone I know to have this option. Whether they choose it or not, I will always respect and support them at every step, but leaving them in agony and continuous suffering is not something I'm willing to overlook. But I genuinely understand your concerns.
  - LorenPechtel 2y ago
    IIRC the patient can make a request in advance specifically covering the case of them being too out of it to consent. Obviously, in such a case if they're then out of it there's no final authorization needed.
LorenPechtel 2y ago
I've been in many discussions over the decades about this--and I see a huge skew: those who have never seen someone have a bad death tend to think euthanasia is a bad thing, those that have had someone close die a bad death tend to have a recognition that there are situations worse than death.
- jrnichols 2y ago
  I've been a paramedic for a long time and I completely agree with this. Years ago I may have been against something like MAID, but once I got into healthcare and especially this job, I now fully support it. It's something that I would hope is there for myself when I need it. If it's not, unfortunately, I've seen what people will do anyway. Allowing people to die with dignity and on their own terms is something that I believe in.
- tokioyoyo 2y ago
  Thank you, that has been my honest take as well. My grandma went through extreme dementia/Alzheimer's while she lived with us when I was a kid. I remember being worried about her state every day when both of my parents had to work. Remember hearing her passing out in the hallway and dragging her back to her bed when I was 13, before calling my mom. Before she got into that state, she was cheerful and mentioned how she didn’t want to lose her sanity ever. The day she passed away has been ingrained deep into my memory. I would never want my children to ever experience what I have felt during those days.

neom 2y ago

These HN comments are both uplifting and wild to me at the same time. I live downtown Toronto, work on Bay St and all I hear is how insane we are allowing all these people to kill themselves with MAID, even on the occasions I log onto twitter, if Canadian stuff comes up I always see some "omg the Canadians are crazy all killing themselves" - I always thought MAID was great but had started to wonder if I'm wrong headed about that.

tokioyoyo 2y ago
Yeah, I hear that in the west as well. I’m relatively young, but enjoy having chats at the park and cafes around me, where median age is probably 50+. So, you get to hear personal stories from people who lost someone in recent times. Obviously there’s always reluctance in discussions as well, like “that person is very strong, I don’t think I’d be able to sign up for that”. But they usually end with “I’m glad that they passed away on their own terms”. I think there’s a disconnect between our social circles (ages 25-50) and supermajority of people who end up taking MAiD way out (70+). So, we don’t hear the heartbreaking but peaceful stories that often.
dghlsakjg 2y ago
Don't take your news and opinions from X. You can talk to real people that work or live in a hospice or care home to better understand the death process (they need volunteers for all sorts of stuff). Or look into the formal studies that have been done on the Canadian side. Controversial cases aside, MAID is more the scheduling of an event that can be seen coming from quite a ways away. I have family members that work in hospice care, and the reality of death makes it seem cruel not to allow MAID. This isn't healthy people offing themselves when they turn 90. This is people seeing a slow and certain decline and loss of dignity due to a known illness. If you knew that your last six months would be extremely painful, you would lose the ability to walk, lose concentration to have a cogent conversation, not be able to go to the bathroom by yourself, and finally your body would just shut down; wouldn't you want the option to shorten or skip out on the final parts of that experience?

eastbound 2y ago

The problem I have with MAiD is I’m not sure the subject really decided it. Forged signatures do exist (a lot) and you’re only a socialist state away from trying to save on public health expenditures by incinerating unwilling patients after pretending their agreement. Without much trace than two witnesses who say “He said it”. Not like it already happened for handicapped people in Germany. I’m quite sure it already happened in Canada, and by dozens. Consentment fraud is a lesser difficulty than stealing someone’s wallet at gunpoint or horribly mutilating people and leaving them in a bathtub. And yet, the consequences of this fraud are fatal, more fatal than extorting their entire life savings from a person. You just take someone who’s currently lonely, not really looked after, perhaps at odds with their parents… and hop, their life is over. Drug addicts, rape victims, lonely adults. So much taxes can be saved. Easy fraud for doctors, with plenty of incentives to commit it, and the highest consequences for the victim.

jeremyjh 2y ago
You are so sure of this, yet you have no evidence at all. I'm not sure your problem, is what you think it is.
tokioyoyo 2y ago
No system is perfect, and at some point there will be fraud. From what I recall, at every single point the patient has the ability to stop the process up until the last minute. All patients require to be in a state of mind to keep making authorizations at every step. I understand your concerns, but I would be willing to take this risk, as I really want both my parents and everyone I know to have this option. Whether they choose it or not, I will always respect and support them at every step, but leaving them in agony and continuous suffering is not something I'm willing to overlook. But I genuinely understand your concerns.
- LorenPechtel 2y ago
  IIRC the patient can make a request in advance specifically covering the case of them being too out of it to consent. Obviously, in such a case if they're then out of it there's no final authorization needed.

LorenPechtel 2y ago

I've been in many discussions over the decades about this--and I see a huge skew: those who have never seen someone have a bad death tend to think euthanasia is a bad thing, those that have had someone close die a bad death tend to have a recognition that there are situations worse than death.

jrnichols 2y ago
I've been a paramedic for a long time and I completely agree with this. Years ago I may have been against something like MAID, but once I got into healthcare and especially this job, I now fully support it. It's something that I would hope is there for myself when I need it. If it's not, unfortunately, I've seen what people will do anyway. Allowing people to die with dignity and on their own terms is something that I believe in.
tokioyoyo 2y ago
Thank you, that has been my honest take as well. My grandma went through extreme dementia/Alzheimer's while she lived with us when I was a kid. I remember being worried about her state every day when both of my parents had to work. Remember hearing her passing out in the hallway and dragging her back to her bed when I was 13, before calling my mom. Before she got into that state, she was cheerful and mentioned how she didn’t want to lose her sanity ever. The day she passed away has been ingrained deep into my memory. I would never want my children to ever experience what I have felt during those days.