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What is the steelman argument for why it's okay to help people kill themselves a la MAID, but not okay to execute murderers? (Assuming the argument against cap

What is the steelman argument for why it's okay to help people kill themselves a la MAID, but not okay to execute murderers? (Assuming the argument against capital punishment is that mistakes are often or sometimes made)

kridsdale1 2y ago
Consent.
- toasterlovin 2y ago
  > mistakes are often or sometimes made I think the mistakes in question would primarily be around whether someone is of sound mind to consent.
  - squigz 2y ago
    As others in this thread have pointed out, pressure (economic, from family members, doctors, etc) is also a big concern. Probably more so than whether they're of sound mind.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tivert 2y ago
> What is the steelman argument for why it's okay to help people kill themselves a la MAID, but not okay to execute murderers? I would assume it's something that centers personal bodily autonomy above all other competing moral considerations. Under that libertarian moral framework, the murderer who does not want to be executed cannot be killed because they don't want it, while the person who want MAID can be killed just because they want it.
- toasterlovin 2y ago
  Under that framework, could it be argued that the murderer has implicitly consented by committing an act they should have reasonably foreseen would result in their own death? (Not well thought out here, just trying this argument on for size)
  - int_19h 2y ago
    Depends. Is it okay to sell oneself into slavery? Some radical right libertarians will answer that question positively, but even for libertarians this is a fringe position.
int_19h 2y ago
The other argument against capital punishment is that, aside from the satisfaction of watching someone who "deserves it" suffer, it doesn't really achieve any practical effect that detention doesn't. This makes even a single mistake morally unacceptable since it doesn't really "buy" anything. With MAID, the practical effect is a very direct and incontrovertibly causal alleviation of suffering on a large scale, which has to be balanced against potential induced suffering due to mistakes.
BeefWellington 2y ago
Others have given you an angle related to consent. I'll give a different take: Rehabilitation. In some philosophies, Prison is designed to rehabilitate prisoners so they don't reoffend. Execution doesn't fit with this philosophy. Assisted Dying is meant to be an option for those for whom there can be no rehabilitation. Eventually some day, when we've figured out the key to immortality and/or sufficiently advanced robotics, maybe we can offer a different way to rehabilitate people facing terminal illnesses and suffering. Until then, letting someone choose not to suffer out their final years and die on their own terms seems like a reasonable approach.
janetmissed 2y ago
The main argument against capital punishment isn't even that mistakes are made. Capital punishment is more expensive and less effective as a deterrent for crime compared to life imprisonment. The argument for MAID is more about terminally ill people being able to prevent excessive suffering. Also consent is a major difference between MAID and capital punishment

kridsdale1 2y ago

Consent.

toasterlovin 2y ago
> mistakes are often or sometimes made I think the mistakes in question would primarily be around whether someone is of sound mind to consent.
- squigz 2y ago
  As others in this thread have pointed out, pressure (economic, from family members, doctors, etc) is also a big concern. Probably more so than whether they're of sound mind.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tivert 2y ago

> What is the steelman argument for why it's okay to help people kill themselves a la MAID, but not okay to execute murderers? I would assume it's something that centers personal bodily autonomy above all other competing moral considerations. Under that libertarian moral framework, the murderer who does not want to be executed cannot be killed because they don't want it, while the person who want MAID can be killed just because they want it.

toasterlovin 2y ago
Under that framework, could it be argued that the murderer has implicitly consented by committing an act they should have reasonably foreseen would result in their own death? (Not well thought out here, just trying this argument on for size)
- int_19h 2y ago
  Depends. Is it okay to sell oneself into slavery? Some radical right libertarians will answer that question positively, but even for libertarians this is a fringe position.

int_19h 2y ago

The other argument against capital punishment is that, aside from the satisfaction of watching someone who "deserves it" suffer, it doesn't really achieve any practical effect that detention doesn't. This makes even a single mistake morally unacceptable since it doesn't really "buy" anything. With MAID, the practical effect is a very direct and incontrovertibly causal alleviation of suffering on a large scale, which has to be balanced against potential induced suffering due to mistakes.

BeefWellington 2y ago

Others have given you an angle related to consent. I'll give a different take: Rehabilitation. In some philosophies, Prison is designed to rehabilitate prisoners so they don't reoffend. Execution doesn't fit with this philosophy. Assisted Dying is meant to be an option for those for whom there can be no rehabilitation. Eventually some day, when we've figured out the key to immortality and/or sufficiently advanced robotics, maybe we can offer a different way to rehabilitate people facing terminal illnesses and suffering. Until then, letting someone choose not to suffer out their final years and die on their own terms seems like a reasonable approach.

janetmissed 2y ago

The main argument against capital punishment isn't even that mistakes are made. Capital punishment is more expensive and less effective as a deterrent for crime compared to life imprisonment. The argument for MAID is more about terminally ill people being able to prevent excessive suffering. Also consent is a major difference between MAID and capital punishment