3 ms·

How is this even possibly a valid software pattern to enable on normal users? Regularly capturing screenshots of their entire desktop, that 90% of users likely

by araes 2y ago

How is this even possibly a valid software pattern to enable on normal users? Regularly capturing screenshots of their entire desktop, that 90% of users likely do not comprehend, and obviously associate with malware behavior. Screenshots. They're not even capturing the forms, or the specific input data. Taking entire desktop pictures of typing on Notepad. Using a software that's difficult to tell whether it's installed. And then it keeps the credentials, makes it difficult to tell whether they've been stored, what info has been stored, whether they've been deleted correctly, and makes it difficult for the actual computer user to even access the stored images. The screenshots appear to be files in a subfolder called AsymStore. I couldn’t open those either and I tried to open them as PNGs, BMPs or JPGs. Perhaps hackers will figure out how to open these files, but as far as I could tell, a typical user can’t open them outside of the Recall app. This reads like a virus pattern. Several notable examples of malware, creepware, Remote Access Trojans (RAT) that do almost this exact activity: Agent Tesla [1], Dark Comet [2], Bifrost [3], and just the general category of Remote Access Trojans [4]. Corporate malware. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Tesla https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_Tesla [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DarkComet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DarkComet [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifrost_(Trojan_horse) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bifrost_(Trojan_horse) [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_desktop_software#RAT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_desktop_software#RAT

drdaeman 2y ago
It would be, if it would be stealthy enabled, unbeknown to machine owner. That - and not the fact it records screen - is what differentiates malware from legit software. It is opt-in, which makes it equivalent of user explicitly setting up a camera to record their work, for a well-intended ability to review those recordings if they need to recall something. If we'll start saying that end-users are somehow incapable of comprehending what screen recording means, then we're basically giving up our agency and arguing we need a nanny. I sincerely hope we don't. Like, literally, it's a screen recording, anyone with a working brain (no matter whenever they're technically literate or not) should be able to tell what consequences - positive and negative it would have. I found a screenshot - the opt-in prompt literally says "Allow Windows to save snapshots of your screen?" If that's not clear or comprehensible, I don't know what is. People who are caught by this must simply ignore and not read what it says on the screen.
- araes 2y ago
  Maybe if it did something very specific you had to set up. Maybe. "You're using Microsoft Edge, would you like to record your (specific) usage of passwords, personal data, and form entries?" (that can be found encrypted (here) if you're interested) Not some large scale screenshot operation. The issue is with taking "snapshots of your screen" with no real knowledge of what is even going to be worked on or recorded afterward. How horrible are the identity theft issues? (BS non-threats requiring logins: social blab / news website account with no money attached, Normal dangerous stuff: credit card use (cancel/contest), Somewhat rare: bank accounts (long bank fight), Rare and dangerous: scanned federal IDs (endless nightmares with the feds)) It even makes the task a greater difficulty because there's so little specificity about what's being recorded or what form the recorded information is going to take. And the results are notably spotty like the article mentions. Also, 95% users. [1] "Across 33 rich countries, only 5% of the population has high computer-related abilities, and only a third of people can complete medium-complexity tasks" Even if we put this in the "only Poor and Terrible skill users would fail" that's still ~50% of the population. How many click through stuff with "Yet another BS alert to get rid of. Go away, I want to actually use my computer." The WWW has long ago deadened most to annoying spam popup authorizations. [1] The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
  - Spivak 2y ago
    So the argument is actually I know better and because I know better my decision should be forced on others for their safety. It's easy to make this argument when you believe you have the truth on your side but what happens when you're on the other side of someone else's obvious truth— secure boot can't be disabled, you can only install apps from the app store, programmatic ad blocking is too dangerous, replacement parts have to be genuine, you're forbidden from performing maintenance on your electric car, we can't let you have unrestricted AI access, we couldn't possibly let you see the source code of your cellular chip, we scan all your private photo uploads for csam, all for your safety of course.
    - 2y ago

by araes 2y ago

drdaeman 2y ago

It would be, if it would be stealthy enabled, unbeknown to machine owner. That - and not the fact it records screen - is what differentiates malware from legit software. It is opt-in, which makes it equivalent of user explicitly setting up a camera to record their work, for a well-intended ability to review those recordings if they need to recall something. If we'll start saying that end-users are somehow incapable of comprehending what screen recording means, then we're basically giving up our agency and arguing we need a nanny. I sincerely hope we don't. Like, literally, it's a screen recording, anyone with a working brain (no matter whenever they're technically literate or not) should be able to tell what consequences - positive and negative it would have. I found a screenshot - the opt-in prompt literally says "Allow Windows to save snapshots of your screen?" If that's not clear or comprehensible, I don't know what is. People who are caught by this must simply ignore and not read what it says on the screen.

araes 2y ago
Maybe if it did something very specific you had to set up. Maybe. "You're using Microsoft Edge, would you like to record your (specific) usage of passwords, personal data, and form entries?" (that can be found encrypted (here) if you're interested) Not some large scale screenshot operation. The issue is with taking "snapshots of your screen" with no real knowledge of what is even going to be worked on or recorded afterward. How horrible are the identity theft issues? (BS non-threats requiring logins: social blab / news website account with no money attached, Normal dangerous stuff: credit card use (cancel/contest), Somewhat rare: bank accounts (long bank fight), Rare and dangerous: scanned federal IDs (endless nightmares with the feds)) It even makes the task a greater difficulty because there's so little specificity about what's being recorded or what form the recorded information is going to take. And the results are notably spotty like the article mentions. Also, 95% users. [1] "Across 33 rich countries, only 5% of the population has high computer-related abilities, and only a third of people can complete medium-complexity tasks" Even if we put this in the "only Poor and Terrible skill users would fail" that's still ~50% of the population. How many click through stuff with "Yet another BS alert to get rid of. Go away, I want to actually use my computer." The WWW has long ago deadened most to annoying spam popup authorizations. [1] The Distribution of Users’ Computer Skills: Worse Than You Think: https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/ https://www.nngroup.com/articles/computer-skill-levels/
- Spivak 2y ago
  So the argument is actually I know better and because I know better my decision should be forced on others for their safety. It's easy to make this argument when you believe you have the truth on your side but what happens when you're on the other side of someone else's obvious truth— secure boot can't be disabled, you can only install apps from the app store, programmatic ad blocking is too dangerous, replacement parts have to be genuine, you're forbidden from performing maintenance on your electric car, we can't let you have unrestricted AI access, we couldn't possibly let you see the source code of your cellular chip, we scan all your private photo uploads for csam, all for your safety of course.
  - 2y ago