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Use carbon steel pans and stainless steel utensils anyway. Better for everyone, extremely durable and, shockingly, they don't stick. Bonus point your fried eggs

• silisili 2y ago
  While I agree with the advice, and all I use are steel and cast iron, I think you need a big disclaimer on "they don't stick." To a new user coming from Teflon, they absolutely stick. It takes a combination of seasoning and temp setting to get something approaching nonstick, but if we're being honest, it's still not quite as slippery as Teflon. For most people though, I think it gets good enough.
  • simgt 2y ago
    > To a new user coming from Teflon, they absolutely stick. That's exactly what I read everywhere before buying the pans a couple years ago, I was fully expecting things to stick a lot but somehow never had issues...
  • tidbits 2y ago
    I have found seasoning doesn't affect the stickiness of the pan. My MIL left my carbon steel pan sitting in water, so I had to grind it to the bone to remove the rust. But even with no seasoning, I was able to cook eggs no problem. The key is temperature control. However, the pan started getting rusty from just sitting out, so I ended up re-seasoning it anyway.
• bityard 2y ago
  > and, shockingly, they don't stick. I have stainless steel pans and have never experienced this.
  • jmcclell 2y ago
    Carbon steel pans are seasoned and generally will be stored with a light coat of oil. You'll add oil while cooking, as well. My carbon steel pans don't stick – an egg will happily glide on the surface. Stainless steel pans are not seasoned, but can still be relatively non-stick as long as they are heated properly prior to use. Heating them closes the pores in the pan's surface, making the surface smoother. Add oil after the pan is properly heated. This youtube video explains the process: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB-SCA1reqE&t=1s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CB-SCA1reqE&t=1s
    • cenamus 2y ago
      Stainless steel doesn't have any pores, and they certainly don't "close" with a 200 degree difference (how even? It's steel). The video just shows a nice hot pan with oil in it, no matter the pan's made of, under those conditions of course stuff isn't gonna stick.
      • jmcclell 2y ago
        There is no oil used in the video that I linked. Did you watch another video? The water glides across the pan due to the Leidenfrost effect. That’s the point when you add the oil. I suspect there are some truisms involved here, but the common wisdom is that there is a combination of contractions in microscopic imperfections of the surface of the pan from the heat (more accurately, expansion causing the gaps to close) and the laidenfrost effect keeping the food from sticking once the pan has reached sufficient temperature. Regardless of the true mechanism, my own experience suggests that most complaints about sticking with stainless steel can be avoided by properly heating the pan before adding the oil and food. For what it’s worth, here is one manufacturer referencing a porous surface: https://www.heritagesteel.us/pages/cooking-techniques#:~:text=The%20surface%20of%20all%20stainless,get%20pinched%20by%20contracting%20pores https://www.heritagesteel.us/pages/cooking-techniques#:~:tex....
        • cenamus 2y ago
          Of course there is, at 1:30, the lady even says it.
  • williamdclt 2y ago
    You might not preheat it enough? It takes a few minutes, check for the leidenfrost effect for a visual indicator that it's hot enough
  • Brian_K_White 2y ago
    stainless sticks like crazy. It's only carbon steel and cast iron that can be seasoned and then don't stick much. It's still not as magic as teflon but it's pretty good with a level of care/practice that isn't too high. Stainless is totally different and is really only good for sauces not frying, because it sticks worse than anything else. "sauces" does also sometimes mean frying and sticking, but only as a first step and then liquid is added which takes up and uses the stuck carmelized bits. And that ends up making the pan easier to clean later as the stuck bits are loosened and dissolved by the following sauce. Those same sorts of things, especially anything tomato or lemon, would actually not be so great in cast iron because it eats away the seasoning. So different pans for different jobs.
    • tidbits 2y ago
      Seasoning doesnt matter. In all 3 cases, the key factor is temperature control. I can make eggs in all three types of pans with no sticking and no seasoning. Seasoning is only to protect the metal from rust.
      • dzhiurgis 2y ago
        Proper scrambled eggs only works in telfon for me. By proper I mean nice and creamy with small curds, not some dried out brain goop. I totally love my stainless tho.
  • maccard 2y ago
    I would say stainless steel is non- stick with some fat and a hot pan. I would say my Teflon pan is _slippery_ even when cold.
• FredPret 2y ago
  I find with this and many other things, the answer is "butter". Even 2.5ml of oil and 2.5ml of butter mixed together will result in eggs that flip perfectly and taste 100x better than teflon eggs.
  • cenamus 2y ago
    The whole point of non-stick pans is not to need any fat/oil, not even a little bit, though. No matter how often people tell me, stainless steel, carbon steel or cast iron, none are as good and low effort as a simple non-stick pan.
    • ozim 2y ago
      I’m find it troublesome to fry without oil or butter on any pan and I only had Teflon ones.
    • williamdclt 2y ago
      I don't think it's really lower effort if you account for the care with which you need to cook with teflon (no metal utensil), wash it (no dishwasher) and store it (no stacking). Unless you replace it every ~year I suppose. There's plenty of things you can cook without fat in a stainless steel, too (pretty much all meats). And fat isn't just for nonstickiness properties, it's a part of making food taste good. If you want/need to avoid fat for health reasons, that's fair. You also just can't sear in a teflon, as you're not supposed to preheat the pan. I almost never reach for my teflon for the opposite reason as you: I find it more effort. The one thing I really use it for is fried eggs, or when I really can't be bothered to wait a few mins for the stainless to preheat
      • cenamus 2y ago
        I mostly use wooden cookware, and I throw that and non-stick pans in the dishwasher, teflon is so chemically stable that it shouldn't matter. But yes, I just buy a new pan every ~2 years, sometimes 3.
        • 2y ago
• jancsika 2y ago
  > Bonus point your fried eggs get a delicious wok hei. Ok, convert me: What is "wok hei," and why can't you get it in a Teflon pan?
  • Baeocystin 2y ago
    It's just a somewhat poetic way to describe the flavors you get when cooking with really high heat really fast. You can't get it on teflon because you're using temps 100+ degrees above what teflon can handle without decomposing.
    • jancsika 2y ago
      Can you safely get those temps on an electric oven?
      • Baeocystin 2y ago
        To clarify, you can't use any teflon or ceramic nonstick coating at the temps required, regardless of heating method. The coatings will degrade, and possibly poison you. That being said, you don't need to be using gas. It is possible to get good wok hei on an induction wok, despite what the foodie peanut gallery says. Not on a 120V unit, though. You need to use a commercial multi-kilowatt setup.
        • jancsika 2y ago
          So now I have to ask-- what's the health risk of eating singed pieces of egg with each breakfast?
          • dole 2y ago
            Depends relative on the singeing and carbonization and other chemical reactions
        • havblue 2y ago
          What exactly are you saying the problem with ceramic is? Could you be more specific?
• r00fus 2y ago
  You can turn any stainless steel pot/pan into a nonstick via the Leidenfrost effect[1]. Only takes a 1-2m extra, and is quite satisfying to watch as well. We have a few carbon steel dishes for intense nonstick cooking but the kids love to see the water balls dance around when they cook. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3laDpr4kvw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3laDpr4kvw
  • amluto 2y ago
    I’ve never found this compelling. Sure, if you cook at silly hot temperatures, then certain things won’t stick. What if you don’t want to cook at silly temperatures, though?
    • r00fus 2y ago
      These aren't silly temps. Another guideline I've seen is to heat to 2/3 the max of your range. Tends to work on all the ranges I've used. Lower temperatures I typically use for reheating or for sauces.
      • amluto 2y ago
        As a proud user of an actually temperature controlled pan, I can do the experiment easily: I cook most meats at a temperature decently below the Leidenfrost temperature, with excellent results. Most veggies, too, but not pancakes. I also find rather hard to imagine that a hamburger or a carrot an egg is actually floating over a cushion of steam while cooking instead of contacting the pan or the oil on the pan. (Even ignoring the implausibility of the Leidenfrost effect supporting a piece of squishy, irregular food and the implausibility of the idea that the pan remains above the Leidenfrost temperature for very long while cooking most foods, much of what’s noteworthy about the Leidenfrost effect is that it limits heat transfer from the pan to the suspended liquid. You are not caramelizing or getting much of any Maillard reaction on a surface that is only in contact with steam at slightly above ambient pressure — it’s too cold!)
  • yencabulator 2y ago
    That video uses up 60% of its runtime before even approaching its stated topic, grumble grumble. https://youtu.be/w3laDpr4kvw?t=216 https://youtu.be/w3laDpr4kvw?t=216