5 ms·

Some people would find the kind of nerdy and analytical "social optimization" you describe more creepy and objectionable than chatting with an OnlyFans model. (

by awongh 2y ago

Some people would find the kind of nerdy and analytical "social optimization" you describe more creepy and objectionable than chatting with an OnlyFans model. (whether or not they are actually an AI) This is not a personal attack, but just my observation of how people perceive the way social interactions should work. Part of these perceptions would also be why people are driven to chat with women on OnlyFans, and why an AI would be effective....

kevinob11 2y ago
While describing it this way may make it sound worse, this is (IME) how it works. For some folks the optimization is intuitive and mostly happens subconsciously for some others it doesn't and needs more focus. A long time ago I started noting when people (esp. my partner) said they like certain things in my phone, then I get them as gifts days, weeks, months, years later. People now think I'm very thoughtful, but I'm just a good note taker. The experience made me think that people who are naturally more "thoughtful", at least partially, just have better memories.
- ExtraRoulette 2y ago
  I get the optimization thing. I also replay situations in my head and how it could have gone better. I even save notes/reminders/mindmaps for the next time I talk to someone or I'm in a particular social situation. That's just how my mind works, and I can't remember everything. I also second your approach. I have a todo.txt file of various restaurants, experiences, places my gf wants to visit. Next time I want to plan a date, I look up the list ("Hey babe, let's go that that [RESTAURANT MENTIONED 3 MONTHS AGO] tonight. It's proven to be a very good system. <3
- Invictus0 2y ago
  The behavior you're describing does make you a thoughtful person even though the thoughts aren't necessarily in the front of your mind. Check out the concept of embodied cognition.
LightBug1 2y ago
What's your suggestion? (Same, not a personal attack, I'm interested in this subject and good to see it from different views).
- awongh 2y ago
  I wasn't trying to suggest anything per se. But like others in the thread I do believe that practicing socialization will cause you to improve at it. And at the same time people will think you're creepy and awkward if you "don't do it right", and if you tell them it's something you are consciously trying to improve on and you show them your written test cases, they might also think you're creepy and weird. One of society's non-rational double standards.
  - inanutshellus 2y ago
    Luckily, it's entirely irrelevant. Simply not latching on assuages people's "creep" factor and besides, the idea is to get YOU to accept chatting not the other way around. From my view: /Ok ready? uhhhh ooooo here goes!/ Me: "Hey nice shoes." You: "... thanks?" /OMG I DID IT/ Me: "this is my stop, have a great day!" /OMGEXCELLENTFINISHSOHAPPY/ From your view: Me: "Hey nice shoes!" You: "Thanks" (weirdo)...? Me: "this is my stop, have a great day!" You: /wow, ... i think he genuinely just wanted to give a compliment. didn't even try to bum money off me. huh./ ... point is - doesn't matter if they're confused or surprised you spoke to them. there's an assumption that if you speak up you must be out to manipulate them (sell something, convert someone, beg, etc.) and when you prove youre not, you help normalize ambient conversation AND fix your own sense of isolation.
    - awongh 2y ago
      This isn't entirely correct though. You definitely shouldn't creep people out or make them uncomfortable. Assuming no bad intent, it's still an issue to know that by saying something you could unintentionally make someone feel bad. That's not to say that no one should ever say anything to an stranger, it's just to point out that there are non-zero consequences to your actions. I think that depending on who you talk to they'll give more or less consequence to making someone feel uncomfortable. (I'm not strictly talking about dating or talking to someone you are possibly romantically interested in). Some specific extreme examples are: at work or if you are in a position of power over someone (you are their boss or their teacher)- or these situations there are more consequences to having an interaction where someone felt uncomfortable. Yes, those are cherry-picked relationships, but just to say that fear of making people uncomfortable is a real and valid concern. Is your discomfort made up in your head? Many times it is. Back to OP, relationships are complicated... it's not hard to see why people end up talking to AI bots instead.
HenryBemis 2y ago
Regarding "creepy", someone my age, giving $10 per month to a 20yo so she can show me her "pipi" and messaging her to "next time wear red instead of blue".. I think I am the creep and she is the prostitute. And the age difference only makes it worse. I get it that the article is about incorporating LLMs/chatbots. Don't many/most dating apps play similar dirty tricks? Technology only enhances what we are.
- vinceguidry 2y ago
  There is nothing creepy or wrong with paying a sex worker for sex work. It's the folks with deep and disturbing fetishes that don't hire a sex worker to work it out with that end up doing creepy and disturbing shit. And there are a lot of them.
  - Cumpiler69 2y ago
    Sex work is the oldest profession in the world, hence why it's legalized and regulated in most developed western democracies. There's always gonna be supply, and there's always gonna be demand, you can never get rid of it since you can't get rid of biology. Even some animals provide sex in exchange for goods. As long as both parties are adults and consenting, I don't really see the fuss on this topic. Just legalize it, regulate it, tax it, and everyone wins. "But it's not allowed according to the $RELIGIOUS_BOOK..." Shut up and mind your own business. If you live in a secular society, religion has no say in this.
tomjen3 2y ago
Thats absolutely true, but people who don't like that tend to also be the people with painfully limited introspection and who are generally not worth talking too much with. And if you do need to do that for work functions or something, you don't have to disclose that you are just doing how to win friends and influence people.
bee_rider 2y ago
Which is fine, right? IMO one of the major problems of the very online era is that we hypothesize about what somebody might find objectionable, and then act like it really matters. Some people might find anything creepy and objectionable. But we managed to get by—even with the knowledge that some people didn’t like is—before we invented all these theories.
alfalfasprout 2y ago
Yeah, honestly a lot of the comments on this post come off as sociopathic.

by awongh 2y ago

kevinob11 2y ago

While describing it this way may make it sound worse, this is (IME) how it works. For some folks the optimization is intuitive and mostly happens subconsciously for some others it doesn't and needs more focus. A long time ago I started noting when people (esp. my partner) said they like certain things in my phone, then I get them as gifts days, weeks, months, years later. People now think I'm very thoughtful, but I'm just a good note taker. The experience made me think that people who are naturally more "thoughtful", at least partially, just have better memories.

ExtraRoulette 2y ago
I get the optimization thing. I also replay situations in my head and how it could have gone better. I even save notes/reminders/mindmaps for the next time I talk to someone or I'm in a particular social situation. That's just how my mind works, and I can't remember everything. I also second your approach. I have a todo.txt file of various restaurants, experiences, places my gf wants to visit. Next time I want to plan a date, I look up the list ("Hey babe, let's go that that [RESTAURANT MENTIONED 3 MONTHS AGO] tonight. It's proven to be a very good system. <3
Invictus0 2y ago
The behavior you're describing does make you a thoughtful person even though the thoughts aren't necessarily in the front of your mind. Check out the concept of embodied cognition.

LightBug1 2y ago

What's your suggestion? (Same, not a personal attack, I'm interested in this subject and good to see it from different views).

awongh 2y ago
I wasn't trying to suggest anything per se. But like others in the thread I do believe that practicing socialization will cause you to improve at it. And at the same time people will think you're creepy and awkward if you "don't do it right", and if you tell them it's something you are consciously trying to improve on and you show them your written test cases, they might also think you're creepy and weird. One of society's non-rational double standards.
- inanutshellus 2y ago
  Luckily, it's entirely irrelevant. Simply not latching on assuages people's "creep" factor and besides, the idea is to get YOU to accept chatting not the other way around. From my view: /Ok ready? uhhhh ooooo here goes!/ Me: "Hey nice shoes." You: "... thanks?" /OMG I DID IT/ Me: "this is my stop, have a great day!" /OMGEXCELLENTFINISHSOHAPPY/ From your view: Me: "Hey nice shoes!" You: "Thanks" (weirdo)...? Me: "this is my stop, have a great day!" You: /wow, ... i think he genuinely just wanted to give a compliment. didn't even try to bum money off me. huh./ ... point is - doesn't matter if they're confused or surprised you spoke to them. there's an assumption that if you speak up you must be out to manipulate them (sell something, convert someone, beg, etc.) and when you prove youre not, you help normalize ambient conversation AND fix your own sense of isolation.
  - awongh 2y ago
    This isn't entirely correct though. You definitely shouldn't creep people out or make them uncomfortable. Assuming no bad intent, it's still an issue to know that by saying something you could unintentionally make someone feel bad. That's not to say that no one should ever say anything to an stranger, it's just to point out that there are non-zero consequences to your actions. I think that depending on who you talk to they'll give more or less consequence to making someone feel uncomfortable. (I'm not strictly talking about dating or talking to someone you are possibly romantically interested in). Some specific extreme examples are: at work or if you are in a position of power over someone (you are their boss or their teacher)- or these situations there are more consequences to having an interaction where someone felt uncomfortable. Yes, those are cherry-picked relationships, but just to say that fear of making people uncomfortable is a real and valid concern. Is your discomfort made up in your head? Many times it is. Back to OP, relationships are complicated... it's not hard to see why people end up talking to AI bots instead.

HenryBemis 2y ago

Regarding "creepy", someone my age, giving $10 per month to a 20yo so she can show me her "pipi" and messaging her to "next time wear red instead of blue".. I think I am the creep and she is the prostitute. And the age difference only makes it worse. I get it that the article is about incorporating LLMs/chatbots. Don't many/most dating apps play similar dirty tricks? Technology only enhances what we are.

vinceguidry 2y ago
There is nothing creepy or wrong with paying a sex worker for sex work. It's the folks with deep and disturbing fetishes that don't hire a sex worker to work it out with that end up doing creepy and disturbing shit. And there are a lot of them.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  Sex work is the oldest profession in the world, hence why it's legalized and regulated in most developed western democracies. There's always gonna be supply, and there's always gonna be demand, you can never get rid of it since you can't get rid of biology. Even some animals provide sex in exchange for goods. As long as both parties are adults and consenting, I don't really see the fuss on this topic. Just legalize it, regulate it, tax it, and everyone wins. "But it's not allowed according to the $RELIGIOUS_BOOK..." Shut up and mind your own business. If you live in a secular society, religion has no say in this.

tomjen3 2y ago

Thats absolutely true, but people who don't like that tend to also be the people with painfully limited introspection and who are generally not worth talking too much with. And if you do need to do that for work functions or something, you don't have to disclose that you are just doing how to win friends and influence people.

bee_rider 2y ago

Which is fine, right? IMO one of the major problems of the very online era is that we hypothesize about what somebody might find objectionable, and then act like it really matters. Some people might find anything creepy and objectionable. But we managed to get by—even with the knowledge that some people didn’t like is—before we invented all these theories.

alfalfasprout 2y ago

Yeah, honestly a lot of the comments on this post come off as sociopathic.