5 ms·

For me, they are both spam

jameslk 2y ago
The example email presumes the recipient who's getting it actually needs the service. I'd be happy if someone did free work for me. If you don't need the service, then yes it's irrelevant either way and effectively spam. But maybe there's some other reason you think the free work or email is spam?
- thereisnospork 2y ago
  >But maybe there's some other reason you think the free work or email is spam? Is 'they are sending me a cold email' not enough? I'd trust the content of a cold email even less than info from car salesmen if that were possible.
  - jameslk 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
      Oh please, are we at the point now where we're thinking that a selfless act (somebody giving you your lost wallet) is analogous to someone trying to make money by contacting you? People are sick of it not just because it's "irrelevant*, but we're tired of being sold to every waking moment. I am still sad at how this spammy article about spam has so many upvotes on HN.
      - hanifc 2y ago
        Some businesses try to make money by trying to make their clients money.
        meiraleal 2y ago
        Yeah, nice use of the word try. You give me money, I try to help you make money.
        hanifc 2y ago
        That's not quite what I meant. I mean they only get paid if you make money.
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      Eh, I was with you until the wallet analogy. Returning somebody’s wallet is just a pure favor. The second email isn’t a favor really, it is still a pitch. It is a better pitch. But it is still a pitch.
      - jameslk 2y ago
        You’re right. I didn’t think that difference through enough. Bad analogy on my part
    - meiraleal 2y ago
      James, stop being a spammer. You are abusing the system, stop lying to yourself (and to us) to feel better.
- saxonww 2y ago
  I think it's personality and experience. Agreeableness and openness to new experiences are 2 of the 'Big 5' personality traits. Some people are very likely to see everything as an opportunity, assume positive intent, and want to give someone a chance. If one thing doesn't work out, it was one thing, and the next thing is completely different. I imagine cold emails work very very well with these people. Lots of these people exist. I'm not on the same side of the spectrum for either of those traits. I usually see these things as a waste of time I didn't ask for. My own experience with sales people makes me distrustful of their intentions. If one thing doesn't work out, I think all the next things that look like it won't work either. Cold emails don't work for me; case studies, hands-off demos, etc. where I am researching you, I have approached you, and I feel like I am controlling the engagement with you, work better.
  - keybored 2y ago
    I don’t feel open to this theory of yours.
  - TuringNYC 2y ago
    >> Agreeableness and openness to new experiences are 2 of the 'Big 5' personality traits. Some people are very likely to see everything as an opportunity, assume positive intent I'm naturally introverted, but I actively overcompensate for it. Over a decade ago, i tried to open my mind to chance conversations. I'd engage in any conversation with anyone -- cafes, grocery stores, etc. Unfortunately I ended up just getting invited to MLM meetings and occasional proselytization. Folks doing the proselytization were actually genuinely friendly, though I wasn't interested in converting. The MLM folks were the worst. Eventually, I ended up back where I started -- only taking random conversations at work or technical events or set social events (e.g., sports)
  - jameslk 2y ago
    I think you’re right that personality traits could be a large factor to how someone perceives cold email skeptically and negatively. Some may be wary of it as a default and some may never allow themselves to be sold to no matter what. That said, I think cold email is often abused (like any selling, promotion, or advertising can be) where many actors take it too far. This is another factor that I think gives cold email a bad perception by default. It’s just much easier to do things at scale and play the numbers game, so that’s what gets us here. The first time I received one of these lead agency emails I was actually open to trying it and responded to it. After the thousandth time of receiving the same message, it goes to spam without a second thought.
- meiraleal 2y ago
  > But maybe there's some other reason you think the free work or email is spam? I don't know you and never asked you for what you consider free work (which is basically some stupid script fetching data). Your trash isn't free work for me, just someone trying to make easy money. As a side note, most agreeable people trying to sell shit is a terribly rude buyer. If you don't believe me, start replying to cold emails selling something back to them. Even better, use a different email and send a cold email too.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    Further, the free work is not free for me to take time to evaluate it. It’s asking me to give up precious chunks of schedule to research it. I have other priorities.

The example email presumes the recipient who's getting it actually needs the service. I'd be happy if someone did free work for me. If you don't need the service, then yes it's irrelevant either way and effectively spam. But maybe there's some other reason you think the free work or email is spam?

thereisnospork 2y ago
>But maybe there's some other reason you think the free work or email is spam? Is 'they are sending me a cold email' not enough? I'd trust the content of a cold email even less than info from car salesmen if that were possible.
- jameslk 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    Oh please, are we at the point now where we're thinking that a selfless act (somebody giving you your lost wallet) is analogous to someone trying to make money by contacting you? People are sick of it not just because it's "irrelevant*, but we're tired of being sold to every waking moment. I am still sad at how this spammy article about spam has so many upvotes on HN.
    - hanifc 2y ago
      Some businesses try to make money by trying to make their clients money.
      - meiraleal 2y ago
        Yeah, nice use of the word try. You give me money, I try to help you make money.
        hanifc 2y ago
        That's not quite what I meant. I mean they only get paid if you make money.
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    Eh, I was with you until the wallet analogy. Returning somebody’s wallet is just a pure favor. The second email isn’t a favor really, it is still a pitch. It is a better pitch. But it is still a pitch.
    - jameslk 2y ago
      You’re right. I didn’t think that difference through enough. Bad analogy on my part
  - meiraleal 2y ago
    James, stop being a spammer. You are abusing the system, stop lying to yourself (and to us) to feel better.
saxonww 2y ago
I think it's personality and experience. Agreeableness and openness to new experiences are 2 of the 'Big 5' personality traits. Some people are very likely to see everything as an opportunity, assume positive intent, and want to give someone a chance. If one thing doesn't work out, it was one thing, and the next thing is completely different. I imagine cold emails work very very well with these people. Lots of these people exist. I'm not on the same side of the spectrum for either of those traits. I usually see these things as a waste of time I didn't ask for. My own experience with sales people makes me distrustful of their intentions. If one thing doesn't work out, I think all the next things that look like it won't work either. Cold emails don't work for me; case studies, hands-off demos, etc. where I am researching you, I have approached you, and I feel like I am controlling the engagement with you, work better.
- keybored 2y ago
  I don’t feel open to this theory of yours.
- TuringNYC 2y ago
  >> Agreeableness and openness to new experiences are 2 of the 'Big 5' personality traits. Some people are very likely to see everything as an opportunity, assume positive intent I'm naturally introverted, but I actively overcompensate for it. Over a decade ago, i tried to open my mind to chance conversations. I'd engage in any conversation with anyone -- cafes, grocery stores, etc. Unfortunately I ended up just getting invited to MLM meetings and occasional proselytization. Folks doing the proselytization were actually genuinely friendly, though I wasn't interested in converting. The MLM folks were the worst. Eventually, I ended up back where I started -- only taking random conversations at work or technical events or set social events (e.g., sports)
- jameslk 2y ago
  I think you’re right that personality traits could be a large factor to how someone perceives cold email skeptically and negatively. Some may be wary of it as a default and some may never allow themselves to be sold to no matter what. That said, I think cold email is often abused (like any selling, promotion, or advertising can be) where many actors take it too far. This is another factor that I think gives cold email a bad perception by default. It’s just much easier to do things at scale and play the numbers game, so that’s what gets us here. The first time I received one of these lead agency emails I was actually open to trying it and responded to it. After the thousandth time of receiving the same message, it goes to spam without a second thought.
meiraleal 2y ago
> But maybe there's some other reason you think the free work or email is spam? I don't know you and never asked you for what you consider free work (which is basically some stupid script fetching data). Your trash isn't free work for me, just someone trying to make easy money. As a side note, most agreeable people trying to sell shit is a terribly rude buyer. If you don't believe me, start replying to cold emails selling something back to them. Even better, use a different email and send a cold email too.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  Further, the free work is not free for me to take time to evaluate it. It’s asking me to give up precious chunks of schedule to research it. I have other priorities.