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Australia has just banned "social media" for under 16s. As someone who got a lot of positive value out of parts of social media from around age 14, I think thi

Australia has just banned "social media" for under 16s. As someone who got a lot of positive value out of parts of social media from around age 14, I think this needs to be done in a more careful way than it was done here. Specifically, I don't think that communication apps such as WhatsApp/Messenger/etc should be banned as they form a key part of communication in and out of school, staying in touch with family, etc. What I'd like to see is more nuanced laws around the exposure of children to social media algorithms. For example, should 14 year olds be on Instagram? Well Instagram DMs are the chat app of choice for many people, so they should probably get that (with safety and moderation controls). How about the public feed? Maybe? But maybe there shouldn't be likes/dislikes/etc. Or maybe there shouldn't be comments.

defrost 2y ago
Without getting into the weeds over whether they should have done this at all, thought has been given to exactly the issues you just raised: The laws, which will come into effect from late 2025, will bar under-16s from being able to access social media platforms such as Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Reddit and X. Exemptions will apply for health and education services including YouTube, Messenger Kids, WhatsApp, Kids Helpline and Google Classroom ~ https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/nov/29/how-australias-tough-social-media-ban-compares-to-laws-in-other-countries https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/nov/29/how-australias... It's important that there's a means of communication between parents and kids, it doesn't have to be Instagram DM's and if that's no longer available the history of the internet to date suggests that habits would change and switch to whatever is available.
standardUser 2y ago
The Aussie law does allow WhatsApp and Messenger Kids, among others. I agree we need nuance for these types of laws. We also need the realistic acknowledgement that kids are usually more savvy than their parents and any law that is too strict will just drive kids to find alternatives that have less transparency, less moderation and less accountability. And though I know the age limits on these things are necessarily arbitrary, I do wish we would accept that 16-year-olds are not kids. Many of them are driving, working part-time jobs, having sex and relationships, experimenting with drugs, engaging with religion and philosophy, caring about politics... the list goes on. They may not be adults, but if we have to have an arbitrary cutoff for the walled-off "kids world" we want to pretend we can create, it can't extend all the way to 16-year-olds.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  It seems healthy to put a financial restraint on organized social media companies profiting off pre-adults. Less profit motive = less attention hacking = more room for user-positive engineering
- danpalmer 2y ago
  > The Aussie law does allow WhatsApp and Messenger Kids ...but not Instagram DMs I don't think, which is functionally a chat app and used in that way.
  - Gigachad 2y ago
    Is instagram DMs a separate app that can be used without interacting or signing up for the social media part?
marcus_holmes 2y ago
I don't think we know wtf they've actually banned until we see the implementation details. It could be a Pornhub-style "are you over 16?" checkbox, all the way up to building a Chinese-style identity verification system. The worst case is that VPN use in Straya will rise a lot next year, and all the ban will effectively have done is removed parental oversight on the kids' social media accounts. edit: spelling, and also rethinking "the worst case". The worst case is some idiotic uniquely-Australian authoritarian attempt to remove online anonymity that ends up making a complete NBN-style farce of the place.
jokethrowaway 2y ago
I think no-one should be exposed to social media and doom scrolling. Still it shouldn't be banned away, it's the parents responsibility to control access for their kids and everyone should be smart enough to avoid social media. If you don't, that's on you, suit yourself.

defrost 2y ago

Without getting into the weeds over whether they should have done this at all, thought has been given to exactly the issues you just raised: The laws, which will come into effect from late 2025, will bar under-16s from being able to access social media platforms such as Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, Reddit and X. Exemptions will apply for health and education services including YouTube, Messenger Kids, WhatsApp, Kids Helpline and Google Classroom ~ https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/nov/29/how-australias-tough-social-media-ban-compares-to-laws-in-other-countries https://www.theguardian.com/media/2024/nov/29/how-australias... It's important that there's a means of communication between parents and kids, it doesn't have to be Instagram DM's and if that's no longer available the history of the internet to date suggests that habits would change and switch to whatever is available.

standardUser 2y ago

The Aussie law does allow WhatsApp and Messenger Kids, among others. I agree we need nuance for these types of laws. We also need the realistic acknowledgement that kids are usually more savvy than their parents and any law that is too strict will just drive kids to find alternatives that have less transparency, less moderation and less accountability. And though I know the age limits on these things are necessarily arbitrary, I do wish we would accept that 16-year-olds are not kids. Many of them are driving, working part-time jobs, having sex and relationships, experimenting with drugs, engaging with religion and philosophy, caring about politics... the list goes on. They may not be adults, but if we have to have an arbitrary cutoff for the walled-off "kids world" we want to pretend we can create, it can't extend all the way to 16-year-olds.

ethbr1 2y ago
It seems healthy to put a financial restraint on organized social media companies profiting off pre-adults. Less profit motive = less attention hacking = more room for user-positive engineering
danpalmer 2y ago
> The Aussie law does allow WhatsApp and Messenger Kids ...but not Instagram DMs I don't think, which is functionally a chat app and used in that way.
- Gigachad 2y ago
  Is instagram DMs a separate app that can be used without interacting or signing up for the social media part?

marcus_holmes 2y ago

I don't think we know wtf they've actually banned until we see the implementation details. It could be a Pornhub-style "are you over 16?" checkbox, all the way up to building a Chinese-style identity verification system. The worst case is that VPN use in Straya will rise a lot next year, and all the ban will effectively have done is removed parental oversight on the kids' social media accounts. edit: spelling, and also rethinking "the worst case". The worst case is some idiotic uniquely-Australian authoritarian attempt to remove online anonymity that ends up making a complete NBN-style farce of the place.

jokethrowaway 2y ago

I think no-one should be exposed to social media and doom scrolling. Still it shouldn't be banned away, it's the parents responsibility to control access for their kids and everyone should be smart enough to avoid social media. If you don't, that's on you, suit yourself.