8 ms·

>The paranoid folks believe the FCC is trying to move all of the unlicensed stuff into the GHz+ range to limit long range communication Whether or not people a

>The paranoid folks believe the FCC is trying to move all of the unlicensed stuff into the GHz+ range to limit long range communication Whether or not people are paranoid, if the FCC moves all unlicenced frequencies into the GHz range, they limit the public's ability to communicate over long ranges with unlicensed equipment.

generalizations 2y ago
Unless the public devises ways to use sub-ghz frequencies without getting caught.
- freedomben 2y ago
  It's pretty damn tough to hide RF, and if it's illegal then it will ask require home brewed circuitry which pretty effectively eliminates the capability from the public
  - gorlilla 2y ago
    It's not especially hard to modulate a signal on frequencies you shouldn't be. You don't even need to be doing it intentionally thanks to the lovely phenomenon of harmonics amongst other factors. Software defined transceivers exist. Adjustable antennas exist. Poorly shielded electronics that can cause further noise propagation to broadcast out of the transmit side also exist. You can also change the intended broadcast frequency of some cheap handheld radios using a USB cable and an off-the-shelf antenna. There is very little in the way of the general public to do something illegal, wittingly or otherwise, in RF. I'd argue that 'capability' is a naive limiter here as they'd be more likely to do this by accident than on purpose (or ignorance vs malice). There are tons of illegal/unpermitted/unlicensed broadcasts happening all of the time. They only become an issue when regulators need to enforce rules, usually due to noticed interference. Bad bonding/grounding is probably the most common cause. RF exists other places too. RF that was meant to be contained in a wire can use these same allocated OTA frequencies because they were never meant to escape that closed system... But do, mostly through poor bonding/grounding. As you can probably see by now, there is little actually stopping anyone from broadcasting on any particular frequency. Regulators will catch them if they're causing destructive interference, eventually. But you could potentially use 'illegal' RF for years and never be noticed. Your transmit power/range and your local environment (who else is using the spectrum locally) will dictate that for you more than any allocation rules alone. The amateur radio scene is a special thing. They share knowledge, experience and more than anything, a culture of informed operation of RF. I'd encourage anyone interested in operating any RF systems to acquire or at least study enough to acquire an amateur Technician license (US).
    - freedomben 2y ago
      > Your transmit power/range and your local environment (who else is using the spectrum locally) will dictate that for you more than any allocation rules alone. I agree, but I think it's important to note that "long range" is the context we're talking about. If you just want to get a quick message out then I fully agree, there's not a ton stopping you, but if you want it be a reliable and/or medium to long-term solution, then the barriers are quite non-trivial. There's also the risk of prosecution, which the regulators are not above if they smell intentionality. If they think you're innocently transmitting they'll just ask you to stop, but if they think you're intentionally and/or openly violating the rules, they can bring some serious legal pain down.
pixelpoet 2y ago
Easy calculated move; try explaining that shrinking of freedom to today's layperson. There are shades of this in understanding when and why to use VPNs and distributed filesharing (e.g. torrents as part of long-term archival efforts), versus easy smear campaign by those wishing to suppress it.
- state_less 2y ago
  I'll take a crack: Today's WiFi, that you all know and love, started out on unlicensed RF (radio frequency) bands. We need to continue to expand the ability to talk on RF to allow innovation, like what happened with WiFi.
  - sroussey 2y ago
    WiFi over 900MHz then?
    - feistypharit 2y ago
      Some of the very first WiFi was 915mhz. Slow, but reached everywhere!
      - lxgr 2y ago
        Reaching everywhere is arguably a bug with WiFi: The more transmitters you can hear and vice versa (besides the ones you're communicating with), the more congestion.
        thanksgiving 2y ago
        not necessarily always. for some use cases, it is better to have slow coverage than no coverage. Not for phones but temperature sensors or water leakage detectors are just two examples of what we could use this for today. However, bigger innovation will happen once we make unlicensed spectrum available. Personally, I don't like there being more licensed spectrum. I think more spectrum should be unlicensed and therefore free for all who play by the rules.
wbl 2y ago
Long ranges mean lots of devices you could inadvertantly step on. Licensing is part of how they stop this.

generalizations 2y ago

Unless the public devises ways to use sub-ghz frequencies without getting caught.

freedomben 2y ago
It's pretty damn tough to hide RF, and if it's illegal then it will ask require home brewed circuitry which pretty effectively eliminates the capability from the public
- gorlilla 2y ago
  It's not especially hard to modulate a signal on frequencies you shouldn't be. You don't even need to be doing it intentionally thanks to the lovely phenomenon of harmonics amongst other factors. Software defined transceivers exist. Adjustable antennas exist. Poorly shielded electronics that can cause further noise propagation to broadcast out of the transmit side also exist. You can also change the intended broadcast frequency of some cheap handheld radios using a USB cable and an off-the-shelf antenna. There is very little in the way of the general public to do something illegal, wittingly or otherwise, in RF. I'd argue that 'capability' is a naive limiter here as they'd be more likely to do this by accident than on purpose (or ignorance vs malice). There are tons of illegal/unpermitted/unlicensed broadcasts happening all of the time. They only become an issue when regulators need to enforce rules, usually due to noticed interference. Bad bonding/grounding is probably the most common cause. RF exists other places too. RF that was meant to be contained in a wire can use these same allocated OTA frequencies because they were never meant to escape that closed system... But do, mostly through poor bonding/grounding. As you can probably see by now, there is little actually stopping anyone from broadcasting on any particular frequency. Regulators will catch them if they're causing destructive interference, eventually. But you could potentially use 'illegal' RF for years and never be noticed. Your transmit power/range and your local environment (who else is using the spectrum locally) will dictate that for you more than any allocation rules alone. The amateur radio scene is a special thing. They share knowledge, experience and more than anything, a culture of informed operation of RF. I'd encourage anyone interested in operating any RF systems to acquire or at least study enough to acquire an amateur Technician license (US).
  - freedomben 2y ago
    > Your transmit power/range and your local environment (who else is using the spectrum locally) will dictate that for you more than any allocation rules alone. I agree, but I think it's important to note that "long range" is the context we're talking about. If you just want to get a quick message out then I fully agree, there's not a ton stopping you, but if you want it be a reliable and/or medium to long-term solution, then the barriers are quite non-trivial. There's also the risk of prosecution, which the regulators are not above if they smell intentionality. If they think you're innocently transmitting they'll just ask you to stop, but if they think you're intentionally and/or openly violating the rules, they can bring some serious legal pain down.

pixelpoet 2y ago

Easy calculated move; try explaining that shrinking of freedom to today's layperson. There are shades of this in understanding when and why to use VPNs and distributed filesharing (e.g. torrents as part of long-term archival efforts), versus easy smear campaign by those wishing to suppress it.

state_less 2y ago
I'll take a crack: Today's WiFi, that you all know and love, started out on unlicensed RF (radio frequency) bands. We need to continue to expand the ability to talk on RF to allow innovation, like what happened with WiFi.
- sroussey 2y ago
  WiFi over 900MHz then?
  - feistypharit 2y ago
    Some of the very first WiFi was 915mhz. Slow, but reached everywhere!
    - lxgr 2y ago
      Reaching everywhere is arguably a bug with WiFi: The more transmitters you can hear and vice versa (besides the ones you're communicating with), the more congestion.
      - thanksgiving 2y ago
        not necessarily always. for some use cases, it is better to have slow coverage than no coverage. Not for phones but temperature sensors or water leakage detectors are just two examples of what we could use this for today. However, bigger innovation will happen once we make unlicensed spectrum available. Personally, I don't like there being more licensed spectrum. I think more spectrum should be unlicensed and therefore free for all who play by the rules.

wbl 2y ago

Long ranges mean lots of devices you could inadvertantly step on. Licensing is part of how they stop this.