6 ms·

I wonder if we'll ever get to a place where we hold food companies accountable for addictive, unheathy food being advertised and sold the way we hold tobacco co

I wonder if we'll ever get to a place where we hold food companies accountable for addictive, unheathy food being advertised and sold the way we hold tobacco companies accountable? I know there is a personal responsibility involved in both, but the situation seems similar.

LPisGood 2y ago
Things like soft drink taxes already begin to do that.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Have those stuck anywhere? I know it was trialed in a few places (Berkely for one) but I don't think it lasted. Great idea though; just like taxing tobacco helped reduce smoking (among other things)
  - vladvasiliu 2y ago
    We have taxes on sugary drinks in France. The tax depends on how much sugar is added, in kg / hl. Funnily, synthetic sweeteners are also taxed, but at a flat rate equal to the "up to 1 kg / hl" of sugar. See [0] for the official text. I'm not convinced this has had a great effect, since I hear there are more and more people who are considered obese [1]. [0] https://entreprendre.service-public.fr/vosdroits/F32101?lang=en https://entreprendre.service-public.fr/vosdroits/F32101?lang... [1] https://presse.inserm.fr/en/obesite-et-surpoids-pres-dun-francais-sur-deux-concerne-etat-des-lieux-prevention-et-solutions-therapeutiques/66621/ https://presse.inserm.fr/en/obesite-et-surpoids-pres-dun-fra...
CodeWriter23 2y ago
USDA shares the blame for placing Carbohydrates as the primary food source on the food pyramid.
- worik 2y ago
  > USDA shares the blame for placing Carbohydrates as the primary food source on the food pyramid. I agree, but I have no real evidence, just a feeling. Is there any evidence?
  - CodeWriter23 2y ago
    None of this is intended to be medical advice. Consult your own practitioner. This is publicly available, but to understand Dr. Fung's entire thesis on obesity and Type 2 Diabetes (along with his entire destruction of the prevailing mainstream treatment protocols for T2D) in particular, it is necessary to read his book, "The Diabetes Code". https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2018/bcr-2017-221854 https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2018/bcr-2017-221854 I've been following the protocol from The Diabetes Code for about 2 months. Objectively: 10lbs lost, key metrics are improved, medications deleted and a Type 2/inflammation related vision ailment objectively healing. I guess I need to say, I have no association with this doctor, receive no monetary benefits. Prior to that, working with an endocrinologist, my stats were deteriorating and my symptoms worsening.
    - benatkin 2y ago
      Fung's book The Obesity Code received a 31% score for scientific accuracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Fung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Fung
      - tayo42 2y ago
        I'm kind of curious if there is any diet or nutrition related book that would score high on scientific accuracy. The field in general seems hard to study well. If any commenting pass-byers know of any, let me know, id be interested.
        rkallos 2y ago
        Dr. Michael Greger's books (and website: https://nutritionfacts.org https://nutritionfacts.org) boast an astonishing amount of citations of medical studies. He readily acknowledges the vast volume of literature around nutrition, with more and more studies being published every year. He and his volunteers have taken on the mission of wading through it and making sense of it. His books, in order of publication: - How Not to Die (2k citations) - How Not to Diet (5k citations) - How Not to Age (13k citations)
timmg 2y ago
It seems like, as a society, we're moving more toward "personal freedom" -- which includes "personal responsibility". Like: we used to ban alcohol, betting and drugs. But we unbanned alcohol and betting and are moving towards decriminalization of drugs. Not saying one way is right or wrong (I can see arguments on both sides, and I personally prefer having freedom). But it does seem the general trend in (US) society these days.
- ausbah 2y ago
  i think society should allow someone to partake in those activities because like you said personal freedom. but many if not all of those activities can develop into addiction which is a form of disease - so society should also heavily disentivize their usage. taxes, prohibited advertisement, can only get from certain places, etc
  - jermaustin1 2y ago
    I can't wait for the unlicensed Twinkie dispensaries to start sprouting up.
- unclad5968 2y ago
  Wouldnt that just hurt the people prone to addiction? If I'm not addicted to alcohol and a huge tax is implemented then I'll just stop drinking. If I am addicted my problem has just been exacerbated because my addiction is now more expensive. I guess it might stop people from experimenting to begin with.
  - giraffe_lady 2y ago
    It's not a binary thing, addiction is very dynamic, especially alcohol because of its ubiquity in the west. Nearly all alcoholics no matter how bad once had a fairly typical usage pattern, often for many years or decades before something changed and they lost control of it. Changes to lifestyle, stress, recreation patterns, and access can all be factors in it spiraling out, and once you're there it's hard to gently wind it back. It's difficult to compare directly because a lot of the places with intentionally high taxes on alcohol also have strong public healthcare systems. But even simple measures like municipal ordinances against selling sub-500ml containers of hard liquor show small but clear results in reducing addiction rates. In any case the consensus among addiction medicine professionals right now seems to be in favor of this sort of "soft restriction" public health policy.
base698 2y ago
Big Tobacco became big food: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/settlement/big/owns.html#:~:text=Other%20businesses%3A%20Kraft%20Foods%2C%20Inc,Brewing%20Co.%2C%20the%20No https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/settlement/bi.... When tobacco became problematic they bought all the food companies.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
standardUser 2y ago
In Mexico (and many other places) they put big labels on packaged foods that have high sugar content. I spent a month there and I found it really helpful. Of course in the US, any attempts at labelling for the benefit of consumers is fought tooth and nail by the food industry.
- benatkin 2y ago
  I don't think those make a big difference. I've seen them in a lot of memes. They're easy to tune out, and are on a lot of healthy food. Here's some more info on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_labeling_in_Mexico#Labels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_labeling_in_Mexico#Labels
  - standardUser 2y ago
    US nutritional info panels are far easier to tune out, but many people still find them useful. Better to give people information should they want to put extra thought into their diet as opposed to keeping things obscured and making the task that much more difficult. The Wiki article says 10% of people take the labels into consideration. If 5-10 million Mexican families eat healthier diets at the cost of simple labels covering some marketing materials, that seems like a fantastic deal for consumers.
    - benatkin 2y ago
      It's good to be able to easily access facts about food, yes. It's the warnings that I think are simply OK, they don't help much nor hurt much. For instance, most people don't need to worry about their dietary sodium, and I think in the US a lot of people could discover tasty food like soups and stir fries and curries that are high in salt and moderate their animal product consumption. https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/dietary-salt-and-blood-pressure-a-complex-connection https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/dietary-salt-and... Edit: looking in that article it's good to avoid too much sodium, but a lot of people don't notice that how salty food tastes isn't always directly related to how much sodium is being consumed. Sodium deep inside of food isn't going to be as easy to taste as salt on the surface.
driverdan 2y ago
How are they responsible for what you choose to eat?
- hombre_fatal 2y ago
  On the flip side, do we want to let people line their coffers by creating addictive substances that some people literally cannot stop eating?
  - Nasrudith 2y ago
    Umm... that describes literally any food and its production. We cannot stop eating or we die. That is how it works.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  That's like saying how are cigarette companies responsible for whether you choose to smoke?
  - driverdan 2y ago
    Yes, I agree. Tobacco companies are not responsible for how you use their product.
Nasrudith 2y ago
Wouldn't there be major issues with post facto laws in the case of food like many other weasel worded usages of "holding accountable"? I swear, the tobbaco lawsuits have turned lawyers into junkies for grand lawsuits which has them looking to find the next big tobbaco whether the target deserves it or not. Unlike tobbaco there is nuance about consumption as good or bad on a per person level, and there was never any obligation nor capability to police the diet of their customers. It isn't like cigarettes where ideal consumption is zero.
anonCoffee 2y ago
Need to hold "healthy at any weight" propagandist responsible too.

LPisGood 2y ago

Things like soft drink taxes already begin to do that.

insane_dreamer 2y ago
Have those stuck anywhere? I know it was trialed in a few places (Berkely for one) but I don't think it lasted. Great idea though; just like taxing tobacco helped reduce smoking (among other things)
- vladvasiliu 2y ago
  We have taxes on sugary drinks in France. The tax depends on how much sugar is added, in kg / hl. Funnily, synthetic sweeteners are also taxed, but at a flat rate equal to the "up to 1 kg / hl" of sugar. See [0] for the official text. I'm not convinced this has had a great effect, since I hear there are more and more people who are considered obese [1]. [0] https://entreprendre.service-public.fr/vosdroits/F32101?lang=en https://entreprendre.service-public.fr/vosdroits/F32101?lang... [1] https://presse.inserm.fr/en/obesite-et-surpoids-pres-dun-francais-sur-deux-concerne-etat-des-lieux-prevention-et-solutions-therapeutiques/66621/ https://presse.inserm.fr/en/obesite-et-surpoids-pres-dun-fra...

CodeWriter23 2y ago

USDA shares the blame for placing Carbohydrates as the primary food source on the food pyramid.

worik 2y ago
> USDA shares the blame for placing Carbohydrates as the primary food source on the food pyramid. I agree, but I have no real evidence, just a feeling. Is there any evidence?
- CodeWriter23 2y ago
  None of this is intended to be medical advice. Consult your own practitioner. This is publicly available, but to understand Dr. Fung's entire thesis on obesity and Type 2 Diabetes (along with his entire destruction of the prevailing mainstream treatment protocols for T2D) in particular, it is necessary to read his book, "The Diabetes Code". https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2018/bcr-2017-221854 https://casereports.bmj.com/content/2018/bcr-2017-221854 I've been following the protocol from The Diabetes Code for about 2 months. Objectively: 10lbs lost, key metrics are improved, medications deleted and a Type 2/inflammation related vision ailment objectively healing. I guess I need to say, I have no association with this doctor, receive no monetary benefits. Prior to that, working with an endocrinologist, my stats were deteriorating and my symptoms worsening.
  - benatkin 2y ago
    Fung's book The Obesity Code received a 31% score for scientific accuracy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Fung https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Fung
    - tayo42 2y ago
      I'm kind of curious if there is any diet or nutrition related book that would score high on scientific accuracy. The field in general seems hard to study well. If any commenting pass-byers know of any, let me know, id be interested.
      - rkallos 2y ago
        Dr. Michael Greger's books (and website: https://nutritionfacts.org https://nutritionfacts.org) boast an astonishing amount of citations of medical studies. He readily acknowledges the vast volume of literature around nutrition, with more and more studies being published every year. He and his volunteers have taken on the mission of wading through it and making sense of it. His books, in order of publication: - How Not to Die (2k citations) - How Not to Diet (5k citations) - How Not to Age (13k citations)

timmg 2y ago

It seems like, as a society, we're moving more toward "personal freedom" -- which includes "personal responsibility". Like: we used to ban alcohol, betting and drugs. But we unbanned alcohol and betting and are moving towards decriminalization of drugs. Not saying one way is right or wrong (I can see arguments on both sides, and I personally prefer having freedom). But it does seem the general trend in (US) society these days.

ausbah 2y ago
i think society should allow someone to partake in those activities because like you said personal freedom. but many if not all of those activities can develop into addiction which is a form of disease - so society should also heavily disentivize their usage. taxes, prohibited advertisement, can only get from certain places, etc
- jermaustin1 2y ago
  I can't wait for the unlicensed Twinkie dispensaries to start sprouting up.
unclad5968 2y ago
Wouldnt that just hurt the people prone to addiction? If I'm not addicted to alcohol and a huge tax is implemented then I'll just stop drinking. If I am addicted my problem has just been exacerbated because my addiction is now more expensive. I guess it might stop people from experimenting to begin with.
- giraffe_lady 2y ago
  It's not a binary thing, addiction is very dynamic, especially alcohol because of its ubiquity in the west. Nearly all alcoholics no matter how bad once had a fairly typical usage pattern, often for many years or decades before something changed and they lost control of it. Changes to lifestyle, stress, recreation patterns, and access can all be factors in it spiraling out, and once you're there it's hard to gently wind it back. It's difficult to compare directly because a lot of the places with intentionally high taxes on alcohol also have strong public healthcare systems. But even simple measures like municipal ordinances against selling sub-500ml containers of hard liquor show small but clear results in reducing addiction rates. In any case the consensus among addiction medicine professionals right now seems to be in favor of this sort of "soft restriction" public health policy.

base698 2y ago

Big Tobacco became big food: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/settlement/big/owns.html#:~:text=Other%20businesses%3A%20Kraft%20Foods%2C%20Inc,Brewing%20Co.%2C%20the%20No https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/settlement/bi.... When tobacco became problematic they bought all the food companies.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

standardUser 2y ago

In Mexico (and many other places) they put big labels on packaged foods that have high sugar content. I spent a month there and I found it really helpful. Of course in the US, any attempts at labelling for the benefit of consumers is fought tooth and nail by the food industry.

benatkin 2y ago
I don't think those make a big difference. I've seen them in a lot of memes. They're easy to tune out, and are on a lot of healthy food. Here's some more info on it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_labeling_in_Mexico#Labels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_labeling_in_Mexico#Labels
- standardUser 2y ago
  US nutritional info panels are far easier to tune out, but many people still find them useful. Better to give people information should they want to put extra thought into their diet as opposed to keeping things obscured and making the task that much more difficult. The Wiki article says 10% of people take the labels into consideration. If 5-10 million Mexican families eat healthier diets at the cost of simple labels covering some marketing materials, that seems like a fantastic deal for consumers.
  - benatkin 2y ago
    It's good to be able to easily access facts about food, yes. It's the warnings that I think are simply OK, they don't help much nor hurt much. For instance, most people don't need to worry about their dietary sodium, and I think in the US a lot of people could discover tasty food like soups and stir fries and curries that are high in salt and moderate their animal product consumption. https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/dietary-salt-and-blood-pressure-a-complex-connection https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/dietary-salt-and... Edit: looking in that article it's good to avoid too much sodium, but a lot of people don't notice that how salty food tastes isn't always directly related to how much sodium is being consumed. Sodium deep inside of food isn't going to be as easy to taste as salt on the surface.

driverdan 2y ago

How are they responsible for what you choose to eat?

hombre_fatal 2y ago
On the flip side, do we want to let people line their coffers by creating addictive substances that some people literally cannot stop eating?
- Nasrudith 2y ago
  Umm... that describes literally any food and its production. We cannot stop eating or we die. That is how it works.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
That's like saying how are cigarette companies responsible for whether you choose to smoke?
- driverdan 2y ago
  Yes, I agree. Tobacco companies are not responsible for how you use their product.

Nasrudith 2y ago

Wouldn't there be major issues with post facto laws in the case of food like many other weasel worded usages of "holding accountable"? I swear, the tobbaco lawsuits have turned lawyers into junkies for grand lawsuits which has them looking to find the next big tobbaco whether the target deserves it or not. Unlike tobbaco there is nuance about consumption as good or bad on a per person level, and there was never any obligation nor capability to police the diet of their customers. It isn't like cigarettes where ideal consumption is zero.

anonCoffee 2y ago

Need to hold "healthy at any weight" propagandist responsible too.