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Python is used for much more than just web dev and Django, whereas Ruby seams to only be synonymous with Ruby on Rails. Do you think Rails is still worth using

Python is used for much more than just web dev and Django, whereas Ruby seams to only be synonymous with Ruby on Rails. Do you think Rails is still worth using when investing in learning Python and Django has a much higher roi?

karolist 2y ago
Majority of learning surface will come from framework and not the language, if you need Python elsewhere just learn that as well, but this shouldn't move framework choice much.
- Tronno 2y ago
  Ruby, and Rails in particular, has a lackluster dev experience with any editor that isn't RubyMine. That's been a huge obstacle for me personally.
  - Joe_Cool 2y ago
    Although a bit annoying to install I am still using the rails plugin for NetBeans. I just never switched to Aptana or Rubymine and now I don't wanna.
  - Lio 2y ago
    Each to their own I guess. Personally I like the ruby-lsp and TPope’s Rails plugin in NeoVim. I dislike heavy weight IDEs, I never find the juice is worth the squeeze.
    - theappsecguy 2y ago
      I want to like ruby lsp but it takes about 8 seconds to get method references in a large monorepo. It’s simply not good enough, and forces anyone looking for a good devex into rubymine
      - Lio 2y ago
        I'd suggest maybe trying either Solargraph[1] (which also works well for me) or a ctags based solution like ripper tags[2]. On the plus side, ruby-lsp is always being improved and worked on, so just like Ruby in general it's only getting better at what it does. 1. https://github.com/castwide/solargraph https://github.com/castwide/solargraph 2. https://github.com/tmm1/ripper-tags https://github.com/tmm1/ripper-tags
  - weaksauce 2y ago
    ruby-lsp and rails-lsp from shopify is pretty good right now and getting better by the day. the vscode extension handles it well too.
- infamia 2y ago
  > Majority of learning surface will come from framework and not the language Once you get past the beginner level in Django, you're going to pick up a ton of Python knowledge (standard dunder methods, MRO, standard lib, data type's im/mutability, package ecosystem, etc.) and muscle memory along the way. Django (for the most part) is just plain old Python data structures, classes, and functions that a decent Django dev will apart, reuse, override, repurpose, and add on to as they do more interesting things. Python is boring (in a good way), however it has a lot of surface area (std lib is massive) and intricacies that a Django dev will pick up along the way to becoming an intermediate/advanced dev. It would take someone coming in fresh to Python quite a while to catch up. Naturally, if the same person knew several languages, the ramp up would be quite a bit quicker.
criddell 2y ago
It sounds like you've already made your choice and it's a good one. Go with Python and make great stuff. Rails has been around two decades, Ruby three. Both will still be there down the road when you decide to try it out. A lot of what you learn in your Python work will translate in some way to Ruby & Rails.
RangerScience 2y ago
Yes. You learn unique, transferable things from every language and framework; usually, techniques and perspectives, but also confidence and theory. I’d also contest your statement that learning Python and Django have a “much higher ROI” - but, I don’t actually want to get into it.
x0x0 2y ago
If you spend a bunch of time in Ruby (or Python), I don't think you'll have a huge lift switching to the other if you ever want to? > Rails is still worth using Yes. Hotwire + Hotwire Native are great tech. The whole suite is integrated in a way that Django isn't ime. I prefer the strong default approach for most things.
dismalaf 2y ago
> Ruby seams to only be synonymous with Ruby on Rails. Seems to be... But it can be used for anything Python is. There's ML libraries, bindings to stuff like Torch, all the math-y stuff like Python, all sorts of stuff. Also it's a great language to just roll your own scripts, programs, etc... Then there's also mruby, which can be embedded like Lua...

karolist 2y ago

Majority of learning surface will come from framework and not the language, if you need Python elsewhere just learn that as well, but this shouldn't move framework choice much.

Tronno 2y ago
Ruby, and Rails in particular, has a lackluster dev experience with any editor that isn't RubyMine. That's been a huge obstacle for me personally.
- Joe_Cool 2y ago
  Although a bit annoying to install I am still using the rails plugin for NetBeans. I just never switched to Aptana or Rubymine and now I don't wanna.
- Lio 2y ago
  Each to their own I guess. Personally I like the ruby-lsp and TPope’s Rails plugin in NeoVim. I dislike heavy weight IDEs, I never find the juice is worth the squeeze.
  - theappsecguy 2y ago
    I want to like ruby lsp but it takes about 8 seconds to get method references in a large monorepo. It’s simply not good enough, and forces anyone looking for a good devex into rubymine
    - Lio 2y ago
      I'd suggest maybe trying either Solargraph[1] (which also works well for me) or a ctags based solution like ripper tags[2]. On the plus side, ruby-lsp is always being improved and worked on, so just like Ruby in general it's only getting better at what it does. 1. https://github.com/castwide/solargraph https://github.com/castwide/solargraph 2. https://github.com/tmm1/ripper-tags https://github.com/tmm1/ripper-tags
- weaksauce 2y ago
  ruby-lsp and rails-lsp from shopify is pretty good right now and getting better by the day. the vscode extension handles it well too.
infamia 2y ago
> Majority of learning surface will come from framework and not the language Once you get past the beginner level in Django, you're going to pick up a ton of Python knowledge (standard dunder methods, MRO, standard lib, data type's im/mutability, package ecosystem, etc.) and muscle memory along the way. Django (for the most part) is just plain old Python data structures, classes, and functions that a decent Django dev will apart, reuse, override, repurpose, and add on to as they do more interesting things. Python is boring (in a good way), however it has a lot of surface area (std lib is massive) and intricacies that a Django dev will pick up along the way to becoming an intermediate/advanced dev. It would take someone coming in fresh to Python quite a while to catch up. Naturally, if the same person knew several languages, the ramp up would be quite a bit quicker.

criddell 2y ago

It sounds like you've already made your choice and it's a good one. Go with Python and make great stuff. Rails has been around two decades, Ruby three. Both will still be there down the road when you decide to try it out. A lot of what you learn in your Python work will translate in some way to Ruby & Rails.

RangerScience 2y ago

Yes. You learn unique, transferable things from every language and framework; usually, techniques and perspectives, but also confidence and theory. I’d also contest your statement that learning Python and Django have a “much higher ROI” - but, I don’t actually want to get into it.

x0x0 2y ago

If you spend a bunch of time in Ruby (or Python), I don't think you'll have a huge lift switching to the other if you ever want to? > Rails is still worth using Yes. Hotwire + Hotwire Native are great tech. The whole suite is integrated in a way that Django isn't ime. I prefer the strong default approach for most things.

dismalaf 2y ago

> Ruby seams to only be synonymous with Ruby on Rails. Seems to be... But it can be used for anything Python is. There's ML libraries, bindings to stuff like Torch, all the math-y stuff like Python, all sorts of stuff. Also it's a great language to just roll your own scripts, programs, etc... Then there's also mruby, which can be embedded like Lua...