5 ms·

How about in a case where libel was relentlessly thrown at families over the course of years, on one of the internets largest and most engaged audiences, leadin

How about in a case where libel was relentlessly thrown at families over the course of years, on one of the internets largest and most engaged audiences, leading to harassment, threats, and assault? What should the judgment be for that?

impossiblefork 2y ago
Not a billion dollars anyway. But 500k per person maybe, if it really heinous?
- giancarlostoro 2y ago
  If that's the case, I sure hope nobody finds my post history from my teen years, or the history of anyone who was a rebellious teen on the internet in the 2000s.
- Eisenstein 2y ago
  That's why we have courts and juries, to make these evaluations. Why should your number should be used over theirs?
  - impossiblefork 2y ago
    Because it's obviously crazy. 1 billion dollars is the 588 people's entire life income. It's just excessive.
    - mikeyouse 2y ago
      Alex jones sold something like $165M in supplements in the 3 years preceding this case… this is somehow the opposite of people complaining that judgements against FB are too small based on the Revenue.
    - pythonaut_16 2y ago
      So you're saying the legal system should hinge on the judgement of what random people believe is "crazy" rather than judges, juries, laws, etc. One opinion should outweigh everyone and everything else?
    - Eisenstein 2y ago
      The people who saw all the information and heard from the parties involved made that decision. You are saying they are wrong based on a feeling.
      - hajile 2y ago
        It was a default judgement. No trial took place and there was no ability for the jury to see evidence from both sides. The monetary amount was absolutely based on feelings.
        Eisenstein 2y ago
        They heard testimony, including Jones'. The fact that they weren't able to see evidence from the other side is because they refused to give any.
karaterobot 2y ago
You just repeated the thing he said was not worth $1 billion dollars, and then said "but isn't that worth a billion dollars?!"
- preciousoo 2y ago
  I emphasized that it wasn’t just over words said, but the frequency of, audience size, and actual real world harm that’s taken place as a result. And as other commenters have pointed out, he acted in contempt of the court on several occasions
  - IncreasePosts 2y ago
    Have the families needed to engage private security? I wonder what their bills have been.
    - mikeyouse 2y ago
      Several had to move..
busterarm 2y ago
The same way that big media organizations get away with this in court. "This content is entertainment and there's no way that any reasonable person could construe this information as facts." If MSNBC, CNN and Fox News can get away with this argument every time they are sued, I don't see how InfoWars doesn't. But then again, court cases aren't about facts or truth.
- skulk 2y ago
  It's very simple. InfoWars did not defend itself in court. Fox news would have. CNN would have. Is it the court's job to defend every defendent? The amount of comments opining here without knowing a smidge of the details of the case is sickening.
  - busterarm 2y ago
    That's not true either though. The default judgment was for not complying with the discovery process to the satisfaction of the court. Other options like perjury charges were available to the court, but the court chose the nuclear option to default against Jones. Also in many cases courts will allow you to walk back from the circumstances that ended up with a person in default and to proceed with a fair trial. I even have direct experience with this in a foreclosure/foreign-judgments case. The court could have allowed Jones to correct the financial and web-analytics records and proceed, but it didn't.
    - skulk 2y ago
      I'm not going to dig up the transcripts, but I was following this pretty closely when it happened. If memory serves right, Jones was given several chances to comply with discovery requests and was constantly attempting to misdirect and otherwise disrupt the proceedings. It's not like the court balked at the first weird thing the defense did and immediately entered into a default judgement. I believe the default judgement is the only thing that makes any sense in this case. The courts aren't there to play games with people like Jones. edit: I dug up the judgement anyways. Take a look and tell me if any of this isn't reasonable. How many more chances do you think Jones deserves here? https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21074211-alex-jones-default-judgment-orders-texas/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21074211-alex-jones-... > The Court now finds that a default judgment on liability should be granted. The Court finds that Defendants’ discovery conduct in this case has shown flagrant bad faith and callous disregard for the responsibilities of discovery under the rules. The Court finds Defendants’ conduct is greatly aggravated by the consistent pattern of discovery abuse throughout the other Sandy Hook cases pending before this Court. Prior to the discovery abuse in this case, Defendants also violated this Court’s discovery orders in Lewis v. Jones, et al. ... and Heslin v. Jones, et al. .... After next violating the October 18, 2019 discovery order in this case, Defendants also failed to timely answer discovery in Pozner v. Jones, et al. ..., another Sandy Hook lawsuit, as well as Fontaine v. InfoWars, LLC, et al. ..., a similar lawsuit involving Defendants’ publications
selfmodruntime 2y ago
This is a "millions of dollars" lawsuit. Not a 10 billion dollar lawsuit. Alex Jones owes what Reddit as a platform is worth. That is insane.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  Good reason to listen to courts the first time!
- kristjansson 2y ago
  > Reddit as a platform is worth RDDT market cap today is 29.1B.
  - selfmodruntime 2y ago
    But evaluations of the platform's worth are 15 billion dollars, IIRC
    - kristjansson 2y ago
      The judgement against Jones is $1.5B

impossiblefork 2y ago

Not a billion dollars anyway. But 500k per person maybe, if it really heinous?

giancarlostoro 2y ago
If that's the case, I sure hope nobody finds my post history from my teen years, or the history of anyone who was a rebellious teen on the internet in the 2000s.
Eisenstein 2y ago
That's why we have courts and juries, to make these evaluations. Why should your number should be used over theirs?
- impossiblefork 2y ago
  Because it's obviously crazy. 1 billion dollars is the 588 people's entire life income. It's just excessive.
  - mikeyouse 2y ago
    Alex jones sold something like $165M in supplements in the 3 years preceding this case… this is somehow the opposite of people complaining that judgements against FB are too small based on the Revenue.
  - pythonaut_16 2y ago
    So you're saying the legal system should hinge on the judgement of what random people believe is "crazy" rather than judges, juries, laws, etc. One opinion should outweigh everyone and everything else?
  - Eisenstein 2y ago
    The people who saw all the information and heard from the parties involved made that decision. You are saying they are wrong based on a feeling.
    - hajile 2y ago
      It was a default judgement. No trial took place and there was no ability for the jury to see evidence from both sides. The monetary amount was absolutely based on feelings.
      - Eisenstein 2y ago
        They heard testimony, including Jones'. The fact that they weren't able to see evidence from the other side is because they refused to give any.

karaterobot 2y ago

You just repeated the thing he said was not worth $1 billion dollars, and then said "but isn't that worth a billion dollars?!"

preciousoo 2y ago
I emphasized that it wasn’t just over words said, but the frequency of, audience size, and actual real world harm that’s taken place as a result. And as other commenters have pointed out, he acted in contempt of the court on several occasions
- IncreasePosts 2y ago
  Have the families needed to engage private security? I wonder what their bills have been.
  - mikeyouse 2y ago
    Several had to move..

busterarm 2y ago

The same way that big media organizations get away with this in court. "This content is entertainment and there's no way that any reasonable person could construe this information as facts." If MSNBC, CNN and Fox News can get away with this argument every time they are sued, I don't see how InfoWars doesn't. But then again, court cases aren't about facts or truth.

skulk 2y ago
It's very simple. InfoWars did not defend itself in court. Fox news would have. CNN would have. Is it the court's job to defend every defendent? The amount of comments opining here without knowing a smidge of the details of the case is sickening.
- busterarm 2y ago
  That's not true either though. The default judgment was for not complying with the discovery process to the satisfaction of the court. Other options like perjury charges were available to the court, but the court chose the nuclear option to default against Jones. Also in many cases courts will allow you to walk back from the circumstances that ended up with a person in default and to proceed with a fair trial. I even have direct experience with this in a foreclosure/foreign-judgments case. The court could have allowed Jones to correct the financial and web-analytics records and proceed, but it didn't.
  - skulk 2y ago
    I'm not going to dig up the transcripts, but I was following this pretty closely when it happened. If memory serves right, Jones was given several chances to comply with discovery requests and was constantly attempting to misdirect and otherwise disrupt the proceedings. It's not like the court balked at the first weird thing the defense did and immediately entered into a default judgement. I believe the default judgement is the only thing that makes any sense in this case. The courts aren't there to play games with people like Jones. edit: I dug up the judgement anyways. Take a look and tell me if any of this isn't reasonable. How many more chances do you think Jones deserves here? https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21074211-alex-jones-default-judgment-orders-texas/ https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21074211-alex-jones-... > The Court now finds that a default judgment on liability should be granted. The Court finds that Defendants’ discovery conduct in this case has shown flagrant bad faith and callous disregard for the responsibilities of discovery under the rules. The Court finds Defendants’ conduct is greatly aggravated by the consistent pattern of discovery abuse throughout the other Sandy Hook cases pending before this Court. Prior to the discovery abuse in this case, Defendants also violated this Court’s discovery orders in Lewis v. Jones, et al. ... and Heslin v. Jones, et al. .... After next violating the October 18, 2019 discovery order in this case, Defendants also failed to timely answer discovery in Pozner v. Jones, et al. ..., another Sandy Hook lawsuit, as well as Fontaine v. InfoWars, LLC, et al. ..., a similar lawsuit involving Defendants’ publications

selfmodruntime 2y ago

This is a "millions of dollars" lawsuit. Not a 10 billion dollar lawsuit. Alex Jones owes what Reddit as a platform is worth. That is insane.

llamaimperative 2y ago
Good reason to listen to courts the first time!
kristjansson 2y ago
> Reddit as a platform is worth RDDT market cap today is 29.1B.
- selfmodruntime 2y ago
  But evaluations of the platform's worth are 15 billion dollars, IIRC
  - kristjansson 2y ago
    The judgement against Jones is $1.5B