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PHP Docker image just hit 1B pulls on Docker Hub
- dartos 2y agoWell yeah. Wordpress is written in php.
- NabilChiheb 2y agoOf course, but this Docker image is for PHP, not WordPress.
- maccard 2y agohttps://github.com/docker-library/wordpress/blob/master/Dockerfile.template https://github.com/docker-library/wordpress/blob/master/Dock... Wordpress's dockerfile pulls PHP.
- that_guy_iain 2y agoSo is Laravel which is pretty massive in its own right. Then with more large scale systems, Symfony is popular. PHP is a thriving ecosystem while other languages seem to have fewer options overall.
- thr0waway001 2y agoBut, but PhP iS dEaD!
- NabilChiheb 2y agoI hope this is a joke
- replwoacause 2y agoYou can tell by the silly casing that it is obviously sarcasm
- adamtaylor_13 2y agoThe lOwEr to uPpErCaSe is based on a popular SpongeBob meme and heavily implies sarcasm and/or outright stupidity.
- NabilChiheb 2y agoThanks for clarification maybe i'm getting old lol
- wongarsu 2y agoPHP is still incredibly big, just not fashionable in silicon valley. The most surprising thing about this is that PHP developers are using Docker, I would have guessed that most of them are on bare metal or shared hosting. But I guess some of them also like modern deployment methods.
- jtreminio 2y ago> The most surprising thing about this is that PHP developers are using Docker Did you think of us as living in a cave forced to connect to a BBS to share the latest on design patterns?
- wongarsu 2y agoMore as people who value simplicity and hackability. Like if you use C# you obviously value structure and organization over many other things and aren't afraid of spending money, so deploying everything on your inhouse Kubernetes cluster makes perfect sense. If you use JavaScript you probably have some kind of compile step, and after deploying you need to somehow restart node anyways; Docker makes this easier and more reliable. But if you use PHP the relative advantage of Docker over rsync isn't nearly as big, but Docker adds a lot of incidental complexity. And if you are small enough you probably want some kind of serverless hosting. With most languages that involves running a tool that creates a docker image and uploads it to that provider. PHP invented that a couple decades earlier and called it shared hosting. It's not as cool and has worse versioning, but functionally it fulfills the same purpose. It just happens to predate docker.
- pier25 2y ago> and aren't afraid of spending money What do you mean?
- wongarsu 2y agoVisual Studio used to be basically mandatory for developing C# and costs $500 per year per developer or more (unless you are happy violating the license of the community edition). Paying for libraries is also completely normal in the C# ecosystem, it's easy to pay another couple thousand per developer for library licenses. I think you tend to get good value for your money, developer salaries are expensive after all. But for any other language (maybe besides C/C++) this is much less common and the paid products that do exist are much cheaper. How does this relate to docker? Only really in combination with the other attributes. Rsyncing files into production isn't as traceable, organized, structured or auditable as many of the Docker-based solutions out there. Those solutions can get expensive at scale, but if you use C# you are used to that
- berkes 2y agoHow does this compare to other comparable containers? Because that relative usage would show us if "it is thriving" is acually true. ``` for repo in node python php ruby golang; do echo "${repo}: $(curl "https://hub.docker.com/v2/repositories/library/$repo" -H 'Accept: application/json' -s | jq .pull_count)" done node: 5457781829 python: 7821948426 php: 1208701378 ruby: 1468243407 golang: 2272339163 ``` Or: it's the last in line for these alternatives. Also, containers build on other containers. E.g. the highly popular phpmyadmin or nextcloud images build on top of php. So each "nextcloud" pull, will result in a pull for php too. Are those developers? Does that mean hundreds of millions less pulls?
- NabilChiheb 2y agoLet me share this—I've worked in a large recruitment company where we were hiring developers from all around the world, and our business model was pretty much the same as Crossover's. PHP was always the most in-demand tech for backend development, and of course, this includes frameworks like Laravel and Symfony. So yes, PHP is thriving. It doesn’t mean that other languages are bad or something that’s ridiculous. this is just to answer the "PHP is dead" folks Every language has its place, and they all have their strengths in different contexts.
- pier25 2y agoJust because there's demand doesn't mean it's thriving. Is usage growing? How many new projects are being started with it relatively to other languages? I certainly don't think it's dead but it probably peaked 10-15 years ago.
- cowmix 2y agoThe other day, I finally decided to kick the tires on Coolify. I had a few small projects lined up and thought it’d be a good fit. So, I mindlessly installed it and was pretty impressed at first. But then I discovered it was written in PHP, and I could feel myself starting to sour on it. That’s when it hit me — I was ashamed of my own bias against PHP.
- pier25 2y agoI tried it and it the whole experience was very clunky. The worst part is it doesn't have zero downtime deploys. Requests to the old version are killed when a new version of a site becomes active. None of this is related to PHP though.
- sameg14 2y agoAnd nodejs is 9M a week, python is 8M a week, tensorflow 50M etc. Pull count doesn't mean anything if you can't group it in some meaningful way. I'm a 15+ year PHP veteran and I can safely say I will never use that language again. There are too many other far better choices out there especially when running in a containerized environment. No apache, nginx, FPM, php.ini custom health check scripts, loosing requests when the container starts or stops etc.
- k1m 2y agoI really like the latest PHP release, 8.4. If anyone does any web scraping or HTML parsing, I've written a blog post about the big improvements made to the new DOM API: https://blog.keyvan.net/p/parsing-html-with-php-84 https://blog.keyvan.net/p/parsing-html-with-php-84
- crowcroft 2y agoWow, this is so much nicer. Appreciate the write up, I found it difficult to find any decent documentation around this.
- adamtaylor_13 2y agoI have the most shallow but irritating indictment against PHP. I cannot, and probably will never get past the stupid `->` syntax. Not only are those keys not nearly as accessible as the humble `.` but there’s literally 100% more keys to type than a simple period. I know it’s pedantic and stupid but I hate it.
- j45 2y agoSyntax preferences are just that. Sometimes syntax disdain can become prejudice towards the users of that language if left unchecked. I try to remind myself that most customers or end users don’t see or care.
- spiderfarmer 2y agoFortune 500 clients will scold you when they find out your product uses the wrong object operator.
- j45 2y agoHaha, that made me laugh out loud and it was most welcome. Double scoldings for building a vast temple of a stack to ones own veneration.
- VWWHFSfQ 2y agoThey're different operators. . is the string concatenation operator.
- obayesshelton 2y agoThe PHP ecosystem and community is thriving.
- paxys 2y agoIt's a big number for sure, but I wouldn't try and extract too much meaning from it. A `docker pull` by itself can mean anything or nothing.
- lordgroff 2y ago> For a "dead" language, PHP sure seems to have a lot of life left in it! I honestly have not met, in real life, anyone that has thought PHP is dead. People that hated PHP? Oh yeah, I've met plenty of such people, often from using it in anger in pre-7+ days. And, (to be fair) for a language nerd, even new PHP is not exactly an exciting language. It's productive, but so very far from glamorous. But dead? How can it be? Wordpress is an absolute behemoth. Laravel is large. Symphony finds plenty of use in the biggishOrg space. Even Drupal is not dead. Who in their right mind could think it's dead?
- paxys 2y agoIt's also true that this forum and the startup ecosystem in general doesn't represent the reality of global software development. Saying "PHP is dead" is accurate if your entire world is silicon valley.
- wongarsu 2y ago"PHP is dead" in the sense that your startup is likely dead if you tell potential investors that you use PHP. Outside the startup world incentives are a bit different
- spiderfarmer 2y agoThe people who hated PHP created the gargantuan JS ecosystem and are still switching tooling and frameworks every 6 months.
- kstrauser 2y ago*Some people. I despised older versions from my time dealing with it (during the upgrade from PHP2 to 3), and I never wrote non-trivial amounts of JS until the last year or so. PHP has a broad base of anti-support. BTW, my loathing of earlier versions don't carry through to now. I haven't had to look at it in a couple decades and maybe it's better now. I was strongly in the hater camp, based on my own personal experiences with it, around the time JS was starting to become a thing.
- ufnwlusna 2y agoI miss PHP but people won't hire me now because I've been out of the loop for 10 years (been deep in platform space: k8s/go/rust). I think Composer & Laravel really drove PHP's evolution. And Nikic's contributions as well of course.
- chaoticmass 2y agoAll the PHP jobs I saw while job searching required Laravel experience. Despite having 19 years experience with PHP and other frameworks, I was out of the running for those jobs.
- ptdorf 2y agoIMO, PHP brings a few things to the table that keep it alive and kicking: 1. You can dynamically load code as you go. This alone allows Wordpress to download and use plugins straight away. You can't do this with Go and it's not as simple with Python. 2. The shared nothing architecture means it's almost trivial to scale out. 3. It's a language easy to pick up and the absence to watch directories and hot reload code gives it the fastest dev experience ever. Modern PHP looks like Java, without the performance.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- pier25 2y agoSo Wordpress has 1.4B pulls and PHP 1.2B pulls. curl "https://hub.docker.com/v2/repositories/library/php" -H 'Accept: application/json' -s curl "https://hub.docker.com/v2/repositories/library/wordpress" -H 'Accept: application/json' -s There's probably a lot of overlap...