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The whole dealership system is parasitic, rentseeking, friction. Tesla might have a point here. Instead of transparently selling a product for fixed price, the

The whole dealership system is parasitic, rentseeking, friction. Tesla might have a point here. Instead of transparently selling a product for fixed price, the dealer system appears based on information asymmetry, haggling, upcharges, finance bullshit, warranty bullshit, subscription bullshit, and many decades of entrenched psyops culture against customers. On top of that, salespeople are often poorly trained on the products and dealerships seem to have an adversarial relationship with corporate, especially around the corporate website differing from the local story. And then the dealerships steer you for whatever benefits them. In 2017 I tried to test drive a Chevy Bolt: Motortrend's car of that year. One dealer hadn't even heard of it. Another said he couldn't get one. Another tried to dissuade me from looking at it by dissing the product. Finally I found a knowledgeable dealer that knew the product, had some, and revealed they were easy for all dealers to get in our area: the others were just being obstreperous. Suck.

infecto 2y ago
This is definitely something that Tesla nails imo. No haggling, a single price listed on the website that changes with market conditions. A list of options available with again explicitly listed prices. No slimy car salesperson trying to upsell the scotchguard on your carpets bs. No hidden prices where the websites lists price $x but when you get to the store they tell you its $x + y. A price, a delivery and its over.
saalweachter 2y ago
It's really annoying to me because I would love to just pick a dealership and go there for the rest of my life for all things automotive. I don't like being ripped off but I'm not particularly price sensitive, so I'd love to just show up and pay a reasonable sticker price that was just The Price Everyone Paid and not have this vague haggling system expected, and not have to worry whether I was being ripped because I wanted a particular option. I hate having to think about decisions I don't particularly care about, so I would prefer to constrain my choices to "maker Y's automobiles", be it GM, Ford or Toyota for the rest of my life, so that once I have the capabilities I need out of an automobile there's only one or two choices. I would love the simplicity of the dealer being the default maintainer of my automobile and I just show up once a year or so and they take care of it in a pleasant experience. It's irksome instead that it feels like they just want to trick you out of as much money as possible up front and that they don't want to have a maintenance department, but are legally required to.
- ghaff 2y ago
  I think service departments are actually pretty profitable for at least ICE dealerships. They certainly put the old college try into introducing you to the service manager even when you've purchased your car in a situation where you're unlikely to use that dealership for service. My last purchase during the supply chain shortages was actually remarkably stress-free other than not being able to get the car sooner rather than later. I was paying cash. Knew there was almost certainly very little negotiating leverage on the list price. Did a bit of haggling on some "factory-installed" add-ons with a car that hadn't been built yet against my trade-in which I got IMO a good deal on. The whole thing took me maybe an hour which is hard to complain about for a large purchase. One of the keys is being ready and able to sever the actual purchase from the financing and the trade-in. It's when people really are stretching their financial envelope (which is common) that conflating various aspects of the transaction starts causing a lot of stress. Of course, it also helps if you've been around the block a few times. OK, if I MUST I'll watch the stupid video about some coating product but know that the answer is no. It's annoying but no more than lots of other things.
  - imglorp 2y ago
    Yes, according to @whiteboardfinance, the car is 26% only of their gross profit. The rest is finance, insurance (warranties), service, parts, etc.

infecto 2y ago

This is definitely something that Tesla nails imo. No haggling, a single price listed on the website that changes with market conditions. A list of options available with again explicitly listed prices. No slimy car salesperson trying to upsell the scotchguard on your carpets bs. No hidden prices where the websites lists price $x but when you get to the store they tell you its $x + y. A price, a delivery and its over.

saalweachter 2y ago

It's really annoying to me because I would love to just pick a dealership and go there for the rest of my life for all things automotive. I don't like being ripped off but I'm not particularly price sensitive, so I'd love to just show up and pay a reasonable sticker price that was just The Price Everyone Paid and not have this vague haggling system expected, and not have to worry whether I was being ripped because I wanted a particular option. I hate having to think about decisions I don't particularly care about, so I would prefer to constrain my choices to "maker Y's automobiles", be it GM, Ford or Toyota for the rest of my life, so that once I have the capabilities I need out of an automobile there's only one or two choices. I would love the simplicity of the dealer being the default maintainer of my automobile and I just show up once a year or so and they take care of it in a pleasant experience. It's irksome instead that it feels like they just want to trick you out of as much money as possible up front and that they don't want to have a maintenance department, but are legally required to.

ghaff 2y ago
I think service departments are actually pretty profitable for at least ICE dealerships. They certainly put the old college try into introducing you to the service manager even when you've purchased your car in a situation where you're unlikely to use that dealership for service. My last purchase during the supply chain shortages was actually remarkably stress-free other than not being able to get the car sooner rather than later. I was paying cash. Knew there was almost certainly very little negotiating leverage on the list price. Did a bit of haggling on some "factory-installed" add-ons with a car that hadn't been built yet against my trade-in which I got IMO a good deal on. The whole thing took me maybe an hour which is hard to complain about for a large purchase. One of the keys is being ready and able to sever the actual purchase from the financing and the trade-in. It's when people really are stretching their financial envelope (which is common) that conflating various aspects of the transaction starts causing a lot of stress. Of course, it also helps if you've been around the block a few times. OK, if I MUST I'll watch the stupid video about some coating product but know that the answer is no. It's annoying but no more than lots of other things.
- imglorp 2y ago
  Yes, according to @whiteboardfinance, the car is 26% only of their gross profit. The rest is finance, insurance (warranties), service, parts, etc.