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Hi gavanwoolery, There's potentially quite a bit to unpack in your statement above. I'm going to try to keep it short and to the point, because it seems you mi

Hi gavanwoolery, There's potentially quite a bit to unpack in your statement above. I'm going to try to keep it short and to the point, because it seems you missed it in the original post. You may be a truly masterful troll. The poster made the cards because she is literally subject to an onslaught of crude behavior, simply due to her appearing to be a woman, while at Defcon. Defcon, as you may know, is open to anyone who wants to attend. It is not a "lion's den". Nobody should have to question whether or not they should restrict themselves from entering a public place with their friends, especially due to a feature of their humanity that was present from birth. Furthermore, this is anything but an isolated incident, which your lion's den theory that she should know better acknowledges. The idea that the expression of male sexuality is completely justified no matter what form it takes is obviously ludicrous and impinging on the human rights of non-males. The conception of this male behavior being expected or unavoidable is exactly what is meant by male privilege. Simply imagine you were subject to this behavior constantly by a group of people who are generally bigger, stronger, rarely held to account, defend each other as a group, and make a great deal more money than you over your lifetime. Each individual act is not necessarily sexist; to contend that anyone is saying that is building a atraw man. Sexism is an aggregation of these behaviors that is unfairly inflicted upon one group by another. Thanks for taking the time to read this, if you do.

gavanwoolery 14y ago
Hi drewwwwww, TL;DR - sexism can be a misnomer/umbrella term, and that is my main gripe. When something is indeed sexist, I would readily call that out. For example, not hiring a qualified female based on her sex qualifies as sexism to me. Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I totally agree that it is not an isolated incident, and thus any knowing female should expect it to happen in similar circumstances. Like I have said in other replies several times, I never justify or condone the behavior, I only seek to explain it. It is "expected" behavior - as in, if I were a female in Las Vegas in a bar full of drunk males, I would expect a certain level of crassness (not justified crassness, but crassness). I think her cards are a potentially good idea, with some modifications. Red, yellow, green (like a stop light) would be a great mechanism for males, because honestly much of the time we are just clueless or naive. Flagging males as sexual offenders or creeps is a bit questionable for being hit on in a bar. Also as I pointed out in other comments, sexism is different from sexual harassment, sexual exploitation, misogyny, and sexual advances. There are plenty of cases of sexism, but I do not think getting hit on rudely in a bar is necessarily sexist (unless the male somehow makes you feel inferior because of your sex, but usually it is just a crass way of throwing a compliment). Males are actually held very accountable in our current legal system (in the US, at least). Rape cases tend to favor the female (as with the UCSB soccer player from Africa who was seemingly wrongly accused and is doing jail time now). Most people do not risk sexism in the workplace (or elsewhere) for fear of a lawsuit. Males are generally bigger and stronger, and occasionally dangerous, but we can't do much about that beyond what is already being done, so I do not know what else can be said about that.
- drewwwwww 14y ago
  I think I understand your point - it's true that the word 'sexism' has really broadened to describe a whole system of behavior that subjugates women throughout society - but it is a system of oppression, and so in order to address it substantially, we need some way to refer to it as a collection of behavior. An explanation is dangerously close to a justification - the distance between the two is not always apparent. I think that is what has driven some of the vehemence in other replies to your original comment. One might argue that an explanation does not even need to be made, as it is the default condition of male and female interaction - men are expected to behave disrespectfully, and women are expected to accept it in one way or another. I believe that we need to call out and address this behavior as much as possible, which is why I think the card system is great. If it's the norm, it needs to be changed. We can do more to address the intimidation that is felt by women almost every moment of every day - we can start with being conscious of it and seek to reduce it in our daily behavior.

gavanwoolery 14y ago

Hi drewwwwww, TL;DR - sexism can be a misnomer/umbrella term, and that is my main gripe. When something is indeed sexist, I would readily call that out. For example, not hiring a qualified female based on her sex qualifies as sexism to me. Thanks for the thoughtful reply. I totally agree that it is not an isolated incident, and thus any knowing female should expect it to happen in similar circumstances. Like I have said in other replies several times, I never justify or condone the behavior, I only seek to explain it. It is "expected" behavior - as in, if I were a female in Las Vegas in a bar full of drunk males, I would expect a certain level of crassness (not justified crassness, but crassness). I think her cards are a potentially good idea, with some modifications. Red, yellow, green (like a stop light) would be a great mechanism for males, because honestly much of the time we are just clueless or naive. Flagging males as sexual offenders or creeps is a bit questionable for being hit on in a bar. Also as I pointed out in other comments, sexism is different from sexual harassment, sexual exploitation, misogyny, and sexual advances. There are plenty of cases of sexism, but I do not think getting hit on rudely in a bar is necessarily sexist (unless the male somehow makes you feel inferior because of your sex, but usually it is just a crass way of throwing a compliment). Males are actually held very accountable in our current legal system (in the US, at least). Rape cases tend to favor the female (as with the UCSB soccer player from Africa who was seemingly wrongly accused and is doing jail time now). Most people do not risk sexism in the workplace (or elsewhere) for fear of a lawsuit. Males are generally bigger and stronger, and occasionally dangerous, but we can't do much about that beyond what is already being done, so I do not know what else can be said about that.

drewwwwww 14y ago
I think I understand your point - it's true that the word 'sexism' has really broadened to describe a whole system of behavior that subjugates women throughout society - but it is a system of oppression, and so in order to address it substantially, we need some way to refer to it as a collection of behavior. An explanation is dangerously close to a justification - the distance between the two is not always apparent. I think that is what has driven some of the vehemence in other replies to your original comment. One might argue that an explanation does not even need to be made, as it is the default condition of male and female interaction - men are expected to behave disrespectfully, and women are expected to accept it in one way or another. I believe that we need to call out and address this behavior as much as possible, which is why I think the card system is great. If it's the norm, it needs to be changed. We can do more to address the intimidation that is felt by women almost every moment of every day - we can start with being conscious of it and seek to reduce it in our daily behavior.