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> There was also talk in a video I think from Jamelle Bouie of the NYT talking about these groups going further and declaring anyone that subsequently went on t

by tivert 2y ago

> There was also talk in a video I think from Jamelle Bouie of the NYT talking about these groups going further and declaring anyone that subsequently went on to be naturalized while living here under these and other programs to have their citizenship revoked. Does he actually have some evidence they're planning on doing that, and have plausible plans to execute it, or is it the typical hyperbolic fear-mongering from Trump's opponents? Retroactively revoking the citizenship of every H1-B who went on to get naturalized (after probably a 10 year process and relying on the law as universally understood at the time), sounds like utter nonsense that probably hasn't been seriously proposed and would go nowhere if it was. > and this is a part of the Chevron Deference ruling Do you have any idea what the Chevron Deference ruling was? IIRC, it only says the courts have to make their own interpretation when a regulatory law is ambiguous, rather than always deferring to the interpretation of an executive agency. I don't think it means "all these regs are null and void now, kthxbye."

soulofmischief 2y ago
Here's a fact sheet from the ACLU which covers the USCIS denaturalization unit created by Trump during his last administration. [0] Biden dismantled the unit, and part of Project 2025 is reimplementing it. > typical hyperbolic fear-mongering from Trump's opponents Let me be clear. There is nothing hyperbolic about Project 2025. The Heritage Foundation, a prominent Republican think tank, is spearheading it. Hundreds of high-ranking politicians and corporate executives are on board with it. The entire administration is going to push for it, systematically, and get as far as they can. It behooves you to study Project 2025 [1] and understand just how bad the next 4 years can be. Obligatory preface, before it derails my message, the Biden/Harris machine is also anti-democratic, but with a particular neoliberal flavor, while Project 2025 is a largely domestic coup, with sweeping support across the GOP, in a time where Republicans have control of the Legislative branch, Judicial branch and soon, Executive branch. And once Trump begins mass-replacing government workers with sympathizers, there will be little any of us can really do about it. [0] https://immpolicytracking.org/media/documents/ACLU_Fact_Sheet_on_Denaturalization.pdf https://immpolicytracking.org/media/documents/ACLU_Fact_Shee... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025
- tivert 2y ago
  > Here's a fact sheet from the ACLU which covers the USCIS denaturalization unit created by Trump during his last administration. [0] That sounds nothing like "declaring anyone that subsequently went on to be naturalized while living here under these [H1-B] and other programs to have their citizenship revoked." It's more like hyper-strict enforcement of existing law, about making material false statements on a naturalization application.
  - th0ma5 2y ago
    Yes this is exactly it, any remote thing that can disqualify people that is today forgiven, and additionally, where Chevron comes in, that a lot of these norms are rules within departments where such things can be evaluated, but Project 2025 says if it isn't a law or statute then it doesn't matter, and that includes any concept of a person living here but not a full, naturalized citizen.
    - tivert 2y ago
      > Yes this is exactly it, any remote thing that can disqualify people that is today forgiven... No that's not at all "exactly it." Do you realize you're moving the goalposts? Looking for flaws in an applications according to existing critera is totally different than somehow retroactively declaring the previous regulations were invalid and screwing everyone who relied on them by revoking their naturalization. > where Chevron comes in, that a lot of these norms are rules within departments where such things can be evaluated Chevron says if there's a controversy over those things, a court needs to resolve it without giving total deference to the department. It doesn't say those "norms are rules" must be struck down, it just says a court will decided if they're following the law. > but Project 2025 says if it isn't a law or statute then it doesn't matter, and that includes any concept of a person living here but not a full, naturalized citizen. You seem to be saying here that there's no law or statute that allows for any state besides "full, naturalized citizen," and that's just so totally not true that it's bonkers you're claiming it.
      - 2y ago

by tivert 2y ago

soulofmischief 2y ago

Here's a fact sheet from the ACLU which covers the USCIS denaturalization unit created by Trump during his last administration. [0] Biden dismantled the unit, and part of Project 2025 is reimplementing it. > typical hyperbolic fear-mongering from Trump's opponents Let me be clear. There is nothing hyperbolic about Project 2025. The Heritage Foundation, a prominent Republican think tank, is spearheading it. Hundreds of high-ranking politicians and corporate executives are on board with it. The entire administration is going to push for it, systematically, and get as far as they can. It behooves you to study Project 2025 [1] and understand just how bad the next 4 years can be. Obligatory preface, before it derails my message, the Biden/Harris machine is also anti-democratic, but with a particular neoliberal flavor, while Project 2025 is a largely domestic coup, with sweeping support across the GOP, in a time where Republicans have control of the Legislative branch, Judicial branch and soon, Executive branch. And once Trump begins mass-replacing government workers with sympathizers, there will be little any of us can really do about it. [0] https://immpolicytracking.org/media/documents/ACLU_Fact_Sheet_on_Denaturalization.pdf https://immpolicytracking.org/media/documents/ACLU_Fact_Shee... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025

tivert 2y ago
> Here's a fact sheet from the ACLU which covers the USCIS denaturalization unit created by Trump during his last administration. [0] That sounds nothing like "declaring anyone that subsequently went on to be naturalized while living here under these [H1-B] and other programs to have their citizenship revoked." It's more like hyper-strict enforcement of existing law, about making material false statements on a naturalization application.
- th0ma5 2y ago
  Yes this is exactly it, any remote thing that can disqualify people that is today forgiven, and additionally, where Chevron comes in, that a lot of these norms are rules within departments where such things can be evaluated, but Project 2025 says if it isn't a law or statute then it doesn't matter, and that includes any concept of a person living here but not a full, naturalized citizen.
  - tivert 2y ago
    > Yes this is exactly it, any remote thing that can disqualify people that is today forgiven... No that's not at all "exactly it." Do you realize you're moving the goalposts? Looking for flaws in an applications according to existing critera is totally different than somehow retroactively declaring the previous regulations were invalid and screwing everyone who relied on them by revoking their naturalization. > where Chevron comes in, that a lot of these norms are rules within departments where such things can be evaluated Chevron says if there's a controversy over those things, a court needs to resolve it without giving total deference to the department. It doesn't say those "norms are rules" must be struck down, it just says a court will decided if they're following the law. > but Project 2025 says if it isn't a law or statute then it doesn't matter, and that includes any concept of a person living here but not a full, naturalized citizen. You seem to be saying here that there's no law or statute that allows for any state besides "full, naturalized citizen," and that's just so totally not true that it's bonkers you're claiming it.
    - 2y ago