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Selling to a business involved with the individual that lost in court.. It seems like a Fraudulent Conveyance to my non lawyer self (but I could be wrong) http

Selling to a business involved with the individual that lost in court.. It seems like a Fraudulent Conveyance to my non lawyer self (but I could be wrong) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudulent_conveyance https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraudulent_conveyance

rfw300 2y ago
It's not a good outcome, but it's also not fraudulent conveyance. Principally because the proceeds of the sale go to the victims.
- ipaddr 2y ago
  They go to the creditors including his primary sponsor. This is not a bad outcome it's the only correct legal outcome. What you are saying is we should allow a creditor (of many) to sell an asset to whoever they choose at a lower market rate because it's the right political move in this one case. Why wouldn't those rules be applied in other cases.. you can sell any asset for a dollar to yourself and the bankrupt person will still be on the hook for the total debt minus a dollar. Letting a single creditor value assets below marketrate and direct a sale to someone they wanted would be a completely unfair process.
  - redeux 2y ago
    This isn’t about politics, it’s about justice. The only reason politics is even in the equation is because Jones has made his living as a political blatherskite.
    - johnnyanmac 2y ago
      Law is almost inherently poliical. Politics was in the equation the moment Jones decided to pretend a tragic school shooting was fake news.
      - redeux 2y ago
        So where is justice in this equation then?
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        The plantiffs getting compensated is the "justice". The courts ruled wrongdoing and the consequence is some sort of payout.
        redeux 2y ago
        That’s a legal remedy not justice. Justice wouldn’t let Jones potentially buy back the company using money the siphoned off and hid from the court.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        I agree. I never said there weren't loopholes in the remedy. We'll see if they manage to close it off.
  - pyrale 2y ago
    That is not what happened, though. One group of creditors said they were willing to abandon some of their claims, which means other creditors would have gotten a larger share of the smaller bid, effectively making these other creditors better off.
- avs733 2y ago
  >A transfer will be fraudulent if made with actual intent to hinder, delay, or defraud any creditor. If they get it less, later, or more chaotically, or if that was the intent it is.
- munk-a 2y ago
  The proceeds of the sale will not come close to the value of the judgement - and Jones has acted extremely dishonestly through the process and repeatedly tried to move value from his company to his parents and other affiliate companies. I don't believe it's a fraudulent conveyance but there's a lot of awful happening here.
citizenkeen 2y ago
[flagged]
pclmulqdq 2y ago
The fraudulent conveyance may have been the move of the vitamin company itself, but the purchase in bankruptcy wouldn't be a fraudulent transation.
- paulryanrogers 2y ago
  Letting Jones buy back his 'bankrupt' assets using money he fraudulently hid goes against the spirit of the law, even in the purchasing phase. This guy should be living in his parents basement and barred from publishing on any significant media platforms. He's proven willing to exploit victims for personal gain to the tune of the millions of dollars.
  - noworriesnate 2y ago
    Why? The creditors still get paid regardless.
    - paulryanrogers 2y ago
      Why should Jones be stopped from hiding assets from bankruptcy? Or why should he be prohibited from profiting from exploitation of crime victims via broadcast platforms? Regardless of whether victims get paid money, they were harmed emotionally by Jones's outsourced harassment. They don't need money. They need justice in the form of peace from harassment. And Jones seems set on exploiting them and the courts for his own enrichment.
      - grepfru_it 2y ago
        Very odd that the judge didn’t write his or her reasoning in his ruling..
cyanydeez 2y ago
Unfortunately, norms aren't going to stop this company from reharming it's victims.

rfw300 2y ago

It's not a good outcome, but it's also not fraudulent conveyance. Principally because the proceeds of the sale go to the victims.

ipaddr 2y ago
They go to the creditors including his primary sponsor. This is not a bad outcome it's the only correct legal outcome. What you are saying is we should allow a creditor (of many) to sell an asset to whoever they choose at a lower market rate because it's the right political move in this one case. Why wouldn't those rules be applied in other cases.. you can sell any asset for a dollar to yourself and the bankrupt person will still be on the hook for the total debt minus a dollar. Letting a single creditor value assets below marketrate and direct a sale to someone they wanted would be a completely unfair process.
- redeux 2y ago
  This isn’t about politics, it’s about justice. The only reason politics is even in the equation is because Jones has made his living as a political blatherskite.
  - johnnyanmac 2y ago
    Law is almost inherently poliical. Politics was in the equation the moment Jones decided to pretend a tragic school shooting was fake news.
    - redeux 2y ago
      So where is justice in this equation then?
      - johnnyanmac 2y ago
        The plantiffs getting compensated is the "justice". The courts ruled wrongdoing and the consequence is some sort of payout.
        redeux 2y ago
        That’s a legal remedy not justice. Justice wouldn’t let Jones potentially buy back the company using money the siphoned off and hid from the court.
        johnnyanmac 2y ago
        I agree. I never said there weren't loopholes in the remedy. We'll see if they manage to close it off.
- pyrale 2y ago
  That is not what happened, though. One group of creditors said they were willing to abandon some of their claims, which means other creditors would have gotten a larger share of the smaller bid, effectively making these other creditors better off.
avs733 2y ago
>A transfer will be fraudulent if made with actual intent to hinder, delay, or defraud any creditor. If they get it less, later, or more chaotically, or if that was the intent it is.
munk-a 2y ago
The proceeds of the sale will not come close to the value of the judgement - and Jones has acted extremely dishonestly through the process and repeatedly tried to move value from his company to his parents and other affiliate companies. I don't believe it's a fraudulent conveyance but there's a lot of awful happening here.

citizenkeen 2y ago

[flagged]

pclmulqdq 2y ago

The fraudulent conveyance may have been the move of the vitamin company itself, but the purchase in bankruptcy wouldn't be a fraudulent transation.

paulryanrogers 2y ago
Letting Jones buy back his 'bankrupt' assets using money he fraudulently hid goes against the spirit of the law, even in the purchasing phase. This guy should be living in his parents basement and barred from publishing on any significant media platforms. He's proven willing to exploit victims for personal gain to the tune of the millions of dollars.
- noworriesnate 2y ago
  Why? The creditors still get paid regardless.
  - paulryanrogers 2y ago
    Why should Jones be stopped from hiding assets from bankruptcy? Or why should he be prohibited from profiting from exploitation of crime victims via broadcast platforms? Regardless of whether victims get paid money, they were harmed emotionally by Jones's outsourced harassment. They don't need money. They need justice in the form of peace from harassment. And Jones seems set on exploiting them and the courts for his own enrichment.
    - grepfru_it 2y ago
      Very odd that the judge didn’t write his or her reasoning in his ruling..

cyanydeez 2y ago

Unfortunately, norms aren't going to stop this company from reharming it's victims.