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It's weird to me to see so many people thinking Tesla is "far behind", when in reality, they're far, far ahead of the competition for a general purpose and scal

It's weird to me to see so many people thinking Tesla is "far behind", when in reality, they're far, far ahead of the competition for a general purpose and scalable self driving solution. Seems like political biases just cloud judgement so much. Youtube now has videos comparing Tesla FSD V13 with Waymo rides on the same routes.

herval 2y ago
I tried both extensively (have the full FSD package on my Model 3). FSD still feels suicidal in a good day, plain incapable on average. I can’t imagine how someone would compare it to a multi-sensor setup - a single camera can’t match the level of prescience a Waymo or Cruise have. But also as the overall experience is just absurdly different. Waymo was the first tech thing I felt was truly magical in _decades_. Meanwhile the best I can get out of Tesla FSD is straight highways. And even there, there’s random glitches (the forever annoying ghost braking being the one that makes me feel particularly unsafe with it)
- delabay 2y ago
  Interesting, I use FSD for two hours a day and I can relate to none of what you have said.
  - karlgkk 2y ago
    Certain routes and models are infamous for this. I recently got a 12.5 demo from a friend that was both impressive when it worked, and truly horrendous when it didn’t. And yes, we had a phantom break event - which appeared to be due to windy road conditions. That’s inexcusable tbqh The problem is that at the end of the day, enough people still have serious issues and Tesla wildly oversells the capability of their system. I think they’ll “get there” in terms of functionality and reliability but it’s nowhere near what waymo is reporting
bcoates 2y ago
There are (crappy, dangerous-seeming) genuine full autonomous-assuming-you-don't-count-remote-safety-drivers Waymos on the street where I live, in volume, for a while now. Tesla's equivalent system appears to be 100% vaporware. I don't understand the case for them not being far behind.
- spankalee 2y ago
  Waymo doesn't have remote divers of any sort.
  - bcoates 2y ago
    Maybe they should then, I was blaming humans for the unsafe/illegal right turns and deranged maneuvering in the presence of lights and sirens firetrucks.
  - karlgkk 2y ago
    Well of course they don’t have remote divers: they don’t operate underwater
- Petersipoi 2y ago
  That means you live in 1 of like 6 cities in the world. Kind of hard to compare Waymo's approach and Tesla's approach and accurately judge how far ahead Waymo is. Come to my city and you will see exactly 0 Waymo's. And it isn't clear to me if it's much easier for Waymo to scale from 6 cities to tens of thousands of cities or for Tesla to scale from tens of thousands of cities to tens of thousands of cities but better. My gut tells me Waymo is ahead, probably by a good amount. But calling Telsa FSD "vaporware" is absurd, and leads me to the same conclusion that GP already called out.
  - bcoates 2y ago
    The equivalent system is no driver in car at all, and unless there's some trial I don't know about, Tesla's product that does that is announced but not existing anywhere, 0 cities, 0 cars. the definition of vaporware.

herval 2y ago

I tried both extensively (have the full FSD package on my Model 3). FSD still feels suicidal in a good day, plain incapable on average. I can’t imagine how someone would compare it to a multi-sensor setup - a single camera can’t match the level of prescience a Waymo or Cruise have. But also as the overall experience is just absurdly different. Waymo was the first tech thing I felt was truly magical in _decades_. Meanwhile the best I can get out of Tesla FSD is straight highways. And even there, there’s random glitches (the forever annoying ghost braking being the one that makes me feel particularly unsafe with it)

delabay 2y ago
Interesting, I use FSD for two hours a day and I can relate to none of what you have said.
- karlgkk 2y ago
  Certain routes and models are infamous for this. I recently got a 12.5 demo from a friend that was both impressive when it worked, and truly horrendous when it didn’t. And yes, we had a phantom break event - which appeared to be due to windy road conditions. That’s inexcusable tbqh The problem is that at the end of the day, enough people still have serious issues and Tesla wildly oversells the capability of their system. I think they’ll “get there” in terms of functionality and reliability but it’s nowhere near what waymo is reporting

bcoates 2y ago

There are (crappy, dangerous-seeming) genuine full autonomous-assuming-you-don't-count-remote-safety-drivers Waymos on the street where I live, in volume, for a while now. Tesla's equivalent system appears to be 100% vaporware. I don't understand the case for them not being far behind.

spankalee 2y ago
Waymo doesn't have remote divers of any sort.
- bcoates 2y ago
  Maybe they should then, I was blaming humans for the unsafe/illegal right turns and deranged maneuvering in the presence of lights and sirens firetrucks.
- karlgkk 2y ago
  Well of course they don’t have remote divers: they don’t operate underwater
Petersipoi 2y ago
That means you live in 1 of like 6 cities in the world. Kind of hard to compare Waymo's approach and Tesla's approach and accurately judge how far ahead Waymo is. Come to my city and you will see exactly 0 Waymo's. And it isn't clear to me if it's much easier for Waymo to scale from 6 cities to tens of thousands of cities or for Tesla to scale from tens of thousands of cities to tens of thousands of cities but better. My gut tells me Waymo is ahead, probably by a good amount. But calling Telsa FSD "vaporware" is absurd, and leads me to the same conclusion that GP already called out.
- bcoates 2y ago
  The equivalent system is no driver in car at all, and unless there's some trial I don't know about, Tesla's product that does that is announced but not existing anywhere, 0 cities, 0 cars. the definition of vaporware.