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I'm very much aware of how Drive Pilot doesn't handle most cases: in my comment I described it as "super limited" and linked to where Mercedes describes the det

by jefftk 2y ago

I'm very much aware of how Drive Pilot doesn't handle most cases: in my comment I described it as "super limited" and linked to where Mercedes describes the details. But within the range of cases where the Mercedes system is applicable (which recently went up to 59mph in Germany [1]) it's solidly better than the Tesla system because Mercedes did the engineering to make it reliable enough that you don't have to supervise the car's driving. If I had a highway commute in stop-and go traffic I'd be comfortable reading in a Mercedes, but not in a Tesla. [1] https://media.mercedes-benz.com/article/4c04b46a-05e3-4a20-930c-1ba42fa005ab https://media.mercedes-benz.com/article/4c04b46a-05e3-4a20-9...

ivewonyoung 2y ago
> If I had a highway commute in stop-and go traffic I'd be comfortable reading in a Mercedes It gets dark at 4:45PM in a good chunk of the western world in winter so it won't be useful then.
- llamaimperative 2y ago
  [flagged]
porphyra 2y ago
If Tesla were to artificially set up limitations like highway only, daytime, clearly visible lanes, good weather, car in front, no construction zones, no lane changes, etc, then they would easily have been able to offer full L3 and take full liability for it. Tesla FSD is practically perfected, with no accidents whatsoever, under such conditions already. But Elon wouldn't want to release this kind of gimped system as he is aiming for full self driving everywhere.
- root_axis 2y ago
  > Tesla FSD is practically perfected Absolutely untrue. It's not even close to perfect. I use it a few times a week and while it's seen some significant improvements over the last year, it still makes pretty dangerous mistakes, especially on left turns, right-turn slip lanes, intersections with flashing yellow lights, streets with very worn road lines or where the positioning of the road lines shift from one side of the intersection to the other. I can think of a dozen other similar situations so I'm very sure there are many others I've never even encountered. It remains to be seen how much juice Tesla can squeeze out of a transformer approach to autonomous driving, but it's by no means a sure thing. edit: I misunderstood the comment. I see now that "practically perfected" is a reference to the ideal conditions mentioned in your first sentence.
  - sib 2y ago
    You seem to have (accidentally?) left off the rest of the comment: "Tesla FSD is practically perfected, with no accidents whatsoever, under such conditions"
    - root_axis 2y ago
      You're right. Thanks. I edited my comment to acknowledge that.
  - throwaway2037 2y ago
    Thank you to post your personal experience. One pattern that I have noticed about Tesla FSD stories on HN: it is black and white, with little grey area. Either people live an area where the roads are easy for FSD to navigate, and they come here to say "It is perfect!". And vice versa: People live in a place with a bunch of complex roads and intersections where FSD does not perform well... And they come to HN to share their experience. (Privately, I cannot wait to see self-driving models try driving on Jakarta or Napoli. It will so much fun to watch those on YouTube!) I do think that Elon/Tesla is taking a crazy gamble to release FSD early to gain billions of hours of training data! I can understand where this would make some people uncomfortable, due to the safety concerns. Except Waymo, who else has the training data that Tesla has at this point? Wiki tells me that FSD has been driving on public roads since 2016. That must an astonishing amount of training data accumulated in the last 8 years! I assume he will be tasking X.ai with improving the FSD model using this enormous training data.
    - porphyra 2y ago
      The streets of Jakarta and Napoli wouldn't work with the Mercedes Benz system either. > Who has the training data at this point? Woven by Toyota has roof pods on rideshare (Lyft) cars collecting data: https://woven.toyota/en/our-latest/20220407/ https://woven.toyota/en/our-latest/20220407/
- Hamuko 2y ago
  How can you claim that they could do it when they clearly are not doing it?
- Certhas 2y ago
  This is so absurd. If they could accurately predict when their system is so reliable, they could get it certified for Level 3 use in these conditions. That's not a gimped version, that's strictly better than the product they offer. They can't though. Mercedes-Benz can. To pretend that Tesla doesn't offer a better product because they don't want to is...
  - 4ndrewl 2y ago
    Tesla aren't allowed to because of woke /s
- sangnoir 2y ago
  > Tesla FSD is practically perfected, with no accidents whatsoever, under such conditions already Disengaging 2 seconds before an accident leads to a perfect driving record

by jefftk 2y ago

ivewonyoung 2y ago

> If I had a highway commute in stop-and go traffic I'd be comfortable reading in a Mercedes It gets dark at 4:45PM in a good chunk of the western world in winter so it won't be useful then.

llamaimperative 2y ago
[flagged]

porphyra 2y ago

If Tesla were to artificially set up limitations like highway only, daytime, clearly visible lanes, good weather, car in front, no construction zones, no lane changes, etc, then they would easily have been able to offer full L3 and take full liability for it. Tesla FSD is practically perfected, with no accidents whatsoever, under such conditions already. But Elon wouldn't want to release this kind of gimped system as he is aiming for full self driving everywhere.

root_axis 2y ago
> Tesla FSD is practically perfected Absolutely untrue. It's not even close to perfect. I use it a few times a week and while it's seen some significant improvements over the last year, it still makes pretty dangerous mistakes, especially on left turns, right-turn slip lanes, intersections with flashing yellow lights, streets with very worn road lines or where the positioning of the road lines shift from one side of the intersection to the other. I can think of a dozen other similar situations so I'm very sure there are many others I've never even encountered. It remains to be seen how much juice Tesla can squeeze out of a transformer approach to autonomous driving, but it's by no means a sure thing. edit: I misunderstood the comment. I see now that "practically perfected" is a reference to the ideal conditions mentioned in your first sentence.
- sib 2y ago
  You seem to have (accidentally?) left off the rest of the comment: "Tesla FSD is practically perfected, with no accidents whatsoever, under such conditions"
  - root_axis 2y ago
    You're right. Thanks. I edited my comment to acknowledge that.
- throwaway2037 2y ago
  Thank you to post your personal experience. One pattern that I have noticed about Tesla FSD stories on HN: it is black and white, with little grey area. Either people live an area where the roads are easy for FSD to navigate, and they come here to say "It is perfect!". And vice versa: People live in a place with a bunch of complex roads and intersections where FSD does not perform well... And they come to HN to share their experience. (Privately, I cannot wait to see self-driving models try driving on Jakarta or Napoli. It will so much fun to watch those on YouTube!) I do think that Elon/Tesla is taking a crazy gamble to release FSD early to gain billions of hours of training data! I can understand where this would make some people uncomfortable, due to the safety concerns. Except Waymo, who else has the training data that Tesla has at this point? Wiki tells me that FSD has been driving on public roads since 2016. That must an astonishing amount of training data accumulated in the last 8 years! I assume he will be tasking X.ai with improving the FSD model using this enormous training data.
  - porphyra 2y ago
    The streets of Jakarta and Napoli wouldn't work with the Mercedes Benz system either. > Who has the training data at this point? Woven by Toyota has roof pods on rideshare (Lyft) cars collecting data: https://woven.toyota/en/our-latest/20220407/ https://woven.toyota/en/our-latest/20220407/
Hamuko 2y ago
How can you claim that they could do it when they clearly are not doing it?
Certhas 2y ago
This is so absurd. If they could accurately predict when their system is so reliable, they could get it certified for Level 3 use in these conditions. That's not a gimped version, that's strictly better than the product they offer. They can't though. Mercedes-Benz can. To pretend that Tesla doesn't offer a better product because they don't want to is...
- 4ndrewl 2y ago
  Tesla aren't allowed to because of woke /s
sangnoir 2y ago
> Tesla FSD is practically perfected, with no accidents whatsoever, under such conditions already Disengaging 2 seconds before an accident leads to a perfect driving record