6 ms·

Would we potentially expect lower rates of Alzheimer's among Muslims then?

by drooby 2y ago

ashconnor 2y ago
This was my initial thought. Is the month of Ramadan enough have an effect on Alzheimer's or is more frequent fasting required?
- Cyph0n 2y ago
  There is a (relatively small) subset of Muslims that fast every Monday and Thursday, in addition to fasting the month of Ramadan. Perhaps that’s a better population sample to study?
- jader201 2y ago
  And how much fasting? Is intermittent enough? 12 hours? 18 hours? Or do we need frequent (e.g. weekly or 2-3 times weekly) 24-hour fasting?
  - tdpvb 2y ago
    14 hours every day is considered great (don't eat late, skip breakfast), a solid 48 hour fast every month or so is also great. Small human studies, for example, have measured 5x to 10x increases in HGH after 48 to 120 hr fasts respectively. Free steroids, basically; the body repairing itself while not being drowned in food all day every day. Telomeres too!
- Mountain_Skies 2y ago
  Fasting during Ramadan is only during the daylight hours, so hardly even enough to be considered intermittent fasting.
noleary 2y ago
Am just a hobbyist with some personal investment in AD, but the genetic basis for Alzheimer's seems like too strong a confounding factor to be looking for behavioral differences between ethnic/religious groups IMO. There does seem to be some kind of link between GLP-1s and Alzheimers: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11242057/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11242057/ Some people also seem to like nicotine-related hypotheses: https://discoveries.vanderbilthealth.com/2019/09/nicotine-to-treat-alzheimers-disease/ https://discoveries.vanderbilthealth.com/2019/09/nicotine-to... and hypotheses with other kinds of drugs that have appetite suppressant characteristics: https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/93/10/1080 https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/93/10/1080 The whole field is kind of a gigantic mess these days, though. Seems like everyone and their cousin has a pet theory.
bluSCALE4 2y ago
I don't think daily fasting heals the body. I believe it has to be multi-day. The Fasting Cure by Upton Sinclair was a nice introduction to the topic for me.
declan_roberts 2y ago
You have to fast for a long time before your body starts fueling you from ketones.
- hollerith 2y ago
  I don't think that is true. Some expert (Dale Bredesen maybe) said somewhere that a healthy person lacking the bad habit of eating late in the evening will tend to start producing and burning ketones during sleep every night. Also, many experts are saying that if your body cannot burn fats and ketones, which is unhealthy, you can get it start being able to again by restricting carbs for a while.
  - tdpvb 2y ago
    Yes there's a lot of hormonal / circadian rhythm effects at play in the evening and early morning. Additionally, you fast while you sleep, so extending that period before and after (not eating late, plus skipping breakfast) helps; 14 hours is a solid fasting amount if you keep it up every day.
- dqh 2y ago
  You don’t need to fast, you just need to stop eating carbs.
  - declan_roberts 2y ago
    Own a strict ketogenic diet right. Feeling absolutely great. Gotta cut down before the Christmas fattening.
troyvit 2y ago
If you've eaten at even a moderately good memory care center you'd expect lower rates from Alzheimer's patients too. Blech.
aussieguy1234 2y ago
Not an expert, but two differences that most Muslims have which non Muslims don't: - They don't drink alcohol - They fast every year No idea if these help or not.
- mahkeiro 2y ago
  They are only doing intermittent fasting (from sunrise to sunset), and a lot of them binge eat as soon as the sun is set. Not sure if this can be used as a baseline for a study.
kleton 2y ago
The usual Ramadan regimen for Muslims involves carbo-loading with dates and sugars in the morning, so it is unlikely to get to ketosis by iftar.
mschuster91 2y ago
Depends, I'd say. The research fraud around amyloids aside, there is still a strong chance that Alzheimer has a genetic link, and in that case you might have to differentiate between Arabic, African, Asian and Western Muslims first. Only if you find similarities in lower Alzheimer rates among all of them, you can draw a conclusion pointing to something in Muslim culture helping to reduce Alzheimer rates (say, the yearly fasting acting like keto diet, or not eating pork, or not drinking alcohol/consuming other drugs), but if it is only found in specific heritages I'd assume a genetic component... or environmental factors similar to higher natural lithium content in the water leading to lower suicide mortality [1]. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32716281/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32716281/

Would we potentially expect lower rates of Alzheimer's among Muslims then?

by drooby 2y ago

Would we potentially expect lower rates of Alzheimer's among Muslims then?

This was my initial thought. Is the month of Ramadan enough have an effect on Alzheimer's or is more frequent fasting required?

Cyph0n 2y ago
There is a (relatively small) subset of Muslims that fast every Monday and Thursday, in addition to fasting the month of Ramadan. Perhaps that’s a better population sample to study?
jader201 2y ago
And how much fasting? Is intermittent enough? 12 hours? 18 hours? Or do we need frequent (e.g. weekly or 2-3 times weekly) 24-hour fasting?
- tdpvb 2y ago
  14 hours every day is considered great (don't eat late, skip breakfast), a solid 48 hour fast every month or so is also great. Small human studies, for example, have measured 5x to 10x increases in HGH after 48 to 120 hr fasts respectively. Free steroids, basically; the body repairing itself while not being drowned in food all day every day. Telomeres too!
Mountain_Skies 2y ago
Fasting during Ramadan is only during the daylight hours, so hardly even enough to be considered intermittent fasting.

noleary 2y ago

Am just a hobbyist with some personal investment in AD, but the genetic basis for Alzheimer's seems like too strong a confounding factor to be looking for behavioral differences between ethnic/religious groups IMO. There does seem to be some kind of link between GLP-1s and Alzheimers: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11242057/ https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11242057/ Some people also seem to like nicotine-related hypotheses: https://discoveries.vanderbilthealth.com/2019/09/nicotine-to-treat-alzheimers-disease/ https://discoveries.vanderbilthealth.com/2019/09/nicotine-to... and hypotheses with other kinds of drugs that have appetite suppressant characteristics: https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/93/10/1080 https://jnnp.bmj.com/content/93/10/1080 The whole field is kind of a gigantic mess these days, though. Seems like everyone and their cousin has a pet theory.

bluSCALE4 2y ago

I don't think daily fasting heals the body. I believe it has to be multi-day. The Fasting Cure by Upton Sinclair was a nice introduction to the topic for me.

declan_roberts 2y ago

You have to fast for a long time before your body starts fueling you from ketones.

hollerith 2y ago
I don't think that is true. Some expert (Dale Bredesen maybe) said somewhere that a healthy person lacking the bad habit of eating late in the evening will tend to start producing and burning ketones during sleep every night. Also, many experts are saying that if your body cannot burn fats and ketones, which is unhealthy, you can get it start being able to again by restricting carbs for a while.
- tdpvb 2y ago
  Yes there's a lot of hormonal / circadian rhythm effects at play in the evening and early morning. Additionally, you fast while you sleep, so extending that period before and after (not eating late, plus skipping breakfast) helps; 14 hours is a solid fasting amount if you keep it up every day.
dqh 2y ago
You don’t need to fast, you just need to stop eating carbs.
- declan_roberts 2y ago
  Own a strict ketogenic diet right. Feeling absolutely great. Gotta cut down before the Christmas fattening.

troyvit 2y ago

If you've eaten at even a moderately good memory care center you'd expect lower rates from Alzheimer's patients too. Blech.

aussieguy1234 2y ago

Not an expert, but two differences that most Muslims have which non Muslims don't: - They don't drink alcohol - They fast every year No idea if these help or not.

mahkeiro 2y ago
They are only doing intermittent fasting (from sunrise to sunset), and a lot of them binge eat as soon as the sun is set. Not sure if this can be used as a baseline for a study.

kleton 2y ago

The usual Ramadan regimen for Muslims involves carbo-loading with dates and sugars in the morning, so it is unlikely to get to ketosis by iftar.

mschuster91 2y ago

Depends, I'd say. The research fraud around amyloids aside, there is still a strong chance that Alzheimer has a genetic link, and in that case you might have to differentiate between Arabic, African, Asian and Western Muslims first. Only if you find similarities in lower Alzheimer rates among all of them, you can draw a conclusion pointing to something in Muslim culture helping to reduce Alzheimer rates (say, the yearly fasting acting like keto diet, or not eating pork, or not drinking alcohol/consuming other drugs), but if it is only found in specific heritages I'd assume a genetic component... or environmental factors similar to higher natural lithium content in the water leading to lower suicide mortality [1]. [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32716281/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32716281/